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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think that pregnant women don't trump everybody else for a seat on the tube?

992 replies

dancersdad · 09/05/2014 19:34

I possibly need some perspective. DW and I were in London today, and unavoidably had to travel on the tube this evening in commuter rush hour. DW has a number of health issues that aren't physically visible, but definitely do impact upon her ability to stand on a crowded tube. When we got on at the start of our journey back the tube was packed with no free seats, so we both stood and I held onto DW as I was worried she was going to fall. The carriage was made up almost entirely of commuters. Two stops into our journey an elderly man got off leaving one of the priority seats free- the only free seat in the carriage. DW went to take the seat and was almost knocked onto the floor by a heavily pregnant woman who tried to slide into the seat alongside DW and beat her to it, as it was DW was already in the seat and the other woman stood up. She then told DW she was so sorry to ask her to move, but she was in a priority seat and as she was sure she knew, priority seats are reserved for those who really need them. DW told her that she had a reason for needing the priority seat too and refused to move when asked again. Cue a whole string of abuse about how no one has any manners nowadays, that she had asked DW to give up her seat for her because as a woman she would expect DW to understand that pregnancy can be hell, the least she could do would be to let her have the seat etc. I stepped in at this point and explained that DW really did need the seat, and loudly suggested to the rest of the carriage that I was sure someone else would be willing to give up a seat for her. Suddenly everyone else was deeply engrossed in their ipads, kindles etc, except for an elderly lady in the other priority seat who clearly needed it too, and offered her seat. The pregnant woman announced loudly that she couldn't possibly ask someone else who needed the seat to give it up, and it was a shame that some people (glaring at DW) had no respect for the priority system, which is in place to ensure those who really need a seat can get one. I pointed out again that DW had a genuine need for the seat too. Cue huffing, eye rolling, and lurching over DW whenever the train changed speed for the rest of her journey.

AIBU to think that although some pregnant women do need a seat on a tube, they shouldn't assume automatic priority over others also in need? There's no priority seat ranking system I don't know about?

OP posts:

Pumpkinpositive · 09/05/2014 20:29

Pumpkin I know people lie but since I'm not psychic I'm not going to interrogate someone just in case they are. Which they could easily carry on to lie about anyway

Don't think that question was addressed to you, unless you also post as WooWooOwl.

GobbolinoCat · 09/05/2014 20:29

Dont you think selfish society is more to blame here?

GobbolinoCat · 09/05/2014 20:31

I'm 39 weeks pregnant and on crutches, so pregnant AND disabled not that anyone in London could give a toss

Buses are worse, lurching and stopping suddenly....people are beyond hideous its embarrassing.

Imagine this happening in Italy or Spain?

TequilaMockingbirdy · 09/05/2014 20:31

Sorry pumpkin I thought the post you quoted was mine.

BumpAndGrind · 09/05/2014 20:32

I've never been in the situation so I'm not sure, but I thought that if you really would like someone to give up their seat you need to approach them directly, loudly exclaiming your need for a seat to all in the carriage is a useless act and individual shaming is needed.

scottishmummy · 09/05/2014 20:32

No,the pg lady needs doesnt trump the other lady who also had needs,both equally in need
Pg lady could fall,faint.none of this would be the responsibility of op wife

GeraldineFangedVagine · 09/05/2014 20:33

ty Gobbolino :)

GobbolinoCat · 09/05/2014 20:33

individual shaming is needed

^ yes.

TequilaMockingbirdy · 09/05/2014 20:33

gobbo even if the woman did have more health problems, the seat was taken by someone who needed it.

I find it utterly disgusting that none of the other commuters stood up. It's a sad reflection of society.

rootypig · 09/05/2014 20:34

For the people talking about the pregnant woman having a go at DW in particular - OP explained that they both dashed for an open seat. When I was pregnant and commuting in London, I would stand and wait patiently for a seat (rather than ask someone to get up, which you have to be pretty brave to do) and then go to it. If someone else was going for it I would assume they hadn't seen I was pregnant and ask them (politely!) if they would mind. Presumably something similar was going on here.

GobbolinoCat · 09/05/2014 20:35

So you understand then why she may be angry if she has to keep asking for the seat and no one ever offering one up....because people are selfish and cruel?

Bithurt · 09/05/2014 20:35

Yanbu.

I'm sure if the pregnant woman had got there first then she wouldn't have moved if asked or that you would have asked her.

It really irritates me when people see a younger (I'm presuming your wife is younger) and automatically presume there's no disability there.

EverythingsDozy · 09/05/2014 20:35

I'm getting so angry reading these comments! I seriously can't believe that there are people who won't give up their seats!
OP - YANBU, your wife shouldn't have had to give up the seats. The pg woman was U in shouting at you, that was very U, no need for being rude. However,she wasn't U in needing a seat. I'm actually quite upset that nobody but an elderly woman got up.
I'm sorry you had a bad day in London. It's threads like these that make me glad for living in the north west where we have practically empty buses / trains and polite people who will most certainly move!

Brabra · 09/05/2014 20:35

What were the 'unavoidable' reasons you were on a rush hour train OP? I think that a heavily pregnant woman who has been in work all day probably did really need that seat. Maybe you should have organised your day better to avoid rush hour?

PosyFossilsShoes · 09/05/2014 20:35

Surely the people who were BU are the other commuters who wouldn't stand up for the pregnant woman.

Although I'm astonished that the pregnant woman even argued. London transport etiquette is to communicate solely through the medium of deathstares and tuts.

slithytove · 09/05/2014 20:36

I think there is BU and NBU on both sides here.

Taking the OP at face value, and not knowing the ins and outs of your DW's condition or the other ladies pregnancy, they were both entitled to the seat.

You are BU for thinking that pregnant women shouldn't take priority though. As others have pointed out, it's not just about pain and discomfort, it's about safety. I have been lucky enough to have a fantastic walk in the park pregnancy, and unlucky enough to have a HG, SPD, low blood pressure pregnancy - but for the latter I was signed off so no pressure. This does mean that I have masses of sympathy for the illnesses that pregnancy can bring.

I can also understand how it is very easy to mistake a hidden disability for selfishness, as people can be very selfish about seating on public transport. However, there is no excuse for abusive behaviour, and for that, the other lady was BVU.

It would have been kind and made more sense to explain - "look, OW has a hidden disability and needs the seat, but give me a second and I'm going to get you one too, I can see you both need one ideally".

One hundred percent, the rest of the carriage (elderly, pregnant, disabled excepted) was BVU.

hazeyjane · 09/05/2014 20:36

I am sorry that the pregnant woman didnt have a seat, and yes other people should have stood for her. but that is not the fault of the op's wife, they explained they had a need for the priority seating, and that really should be enough.

Mama1980 · 09/05/2014 20:37

In all honesty I am disabled, partially paralysed and cannot walk far without help and only with pain and I would give up my seat for a pregnant woman. If she were to fall she could injure her baby, i wouldn't want her to risk it.
However she was rude to keep going on. Did you ask if one of the other passengers would move directly?

GobbolinoCat · 09/05/2014 20:37

Anyway if I was op I would have been totally apologetic to pregnant lady and been as helpful as I could and understood her anger and either got her a seat or offered my arm or assistance to her....whilst the wife was safely sat.

whereonthestair · 09/05/2014 20:39

I think you were in the right and if your wife is disabled ( even temporarily ) she was entitled to the seat. I also think that if it is top trumps, disability is the most deserving, because pregnancy is temporary, and if a disabled person can't sit, then they may be unable to travel, or work at all. Now not all disabilities have the same needs, but in the absence of further info, which I don't see you or your wife had any requirement to give then pregnant woman is (quite understandably) unreasonable. But it's the other passengers who are really unreasonable. I say that as someone who has travelled pregnant in rush hour and never had a problem politely asking for seats, and now someone with a disabled child who cannot walk, who I often carry and end up asking for (and always getting) help, seats etc. rush hour is awful, but if you can't travel at all for permanent health reasons that is worse, as is permanent, life long disability compared to pregnancy.

slithytove · 09/05/2014 20:39

Not a hidden disability badge no.

But perhaps the tube system could come up with something like "entitled to priority seating" - encompassing disabled, pregnant, elderly, whatever.

Clearly the baby on board badges work, so why not.

Lilymaid · 09/05/2014 20:39

I have a hidden disability (cancer) and travel on the tube. If I don't sit down it is painful as bone cancer has weakened my back. So I often ponder on this! I've not been asked to give up my seat by a pregnant woman, but if I did I would explain this and make sure others within earshot could hear. I have commuted when pregnant so know what it is like but I don't consider it to be more deserving than my own disability when others are sitting who could give up their seats.
I had a bizarre experience on a crowded tube train recently. A seat came free a stop before I was getting off. I was nearest to it but a young man (less than half my advanced age) asked me if he could have the seat as he had back ache. I said he could as I was getting off at the next stop but then added that it was OK as I only had cancer ... much hilarity amongst the women in the carriage who had probably all had to stand when pregnant/with back ache etc!

ikeaismylocal · 09/05/2014 20:40

I actually think that a pregnant woman by herself should take priority over someone with disabilities who has someone to help them.

The consequence of a pregnant woman falling or being bumped into could be the death of the baby, the consequence of op's wife falling would be that the op would catch her.

GobbolinoCat · 09/05/2014 20:40

I have three family members with disabled badges and one who insistent on trying to walk without the aid of a stick or walker so people do not know he is in great pain and is un steady . For this very reason so people can be more aware I begged him to have some sort of aid...

I have been on both sides of this situation...I also know in the latter stages of my pregnancy standing for more than a few minuets made me feel very un well.

This is why I think is the wider issue of the other people on the carriage here who should have been at the ends of OP's wrath.

scottishmummy · 09/05/2014 20:42

No one needs to justify a physical,mental health need to anyone else or wear a badge
The packed carriage didn't respond,or offer a seat.that is their responsibility
The op wife has own needs,and as such unable to fulfil request for seat

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