Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that pregnant women don't trump everybody else for a seat on the tube?

992 replies

dancersdad · 09/05/2014 19:34

I possibly need some perspective. DW and I were in London today, and unavoidably had to travel on the tube this evening in commuter rush hour. DW has a number of health issues that aren't physically visible, but definitely do impact upon her ability to stand on a crowded tube. When we got on at the start of our journey back the tube was packed with no free seats, so we both stood and I held onto DW as I was worried she was going to fall. The carriage was made up almost entirely of commuters. Two stops into our journey an elderly man got off leaving one of the priority seats free- the only free seat in the carriage. DW went to take the seat and was almost knocked onto the floor by a heavily pregnant woman who tried to slide into the seat alongside DW and beat her to it, as it was DW was already in the seat and the other woman stood up. She then told DW she was so sorry to ask her to move, but she was in a priority seat and as she was sure she knew, priority seats are reserved for those who really need them. DW told her that she had a reason for needing the priority seat too and refused to move when asked again. Cue a whole string of abuse about how no one has any manners nowadays, that she had asked DW to give up her seat for her because as a woman she would expect DW to understand that pregnancy can be hell, the least she could do would be to let her have the seat etc. I stepped in at this point and explained that DW really did need the seat, and loudly suggested to the rest of the carriage that I was sure someone else would be willing to give up a seat for her. Suddenly everyone else was deeply engrossed in their ipads, kindles etc, except for an elderly lady in the other priority seat who clearly needed it too, and offered her seat. The pregnant woman announced loudly that she couldn't possibly ask someone else who needed the seat to give it up, and it was a shame that some people (glaring at DW) had no respect for the priority system, which is in place to ensure those who really need a seat can get one. I pointed out again that DW had a genuine need for the seat too. Cue huffing, eye rolling, and lurching over DW whenever the train changed speed for the rest of her journey.

AIBU to think that although some pregnant women do need a seat on a tube, they shouldn't assume automatic priority over others also in need? There's no priority seat ranking system I don't know about? Confused

OP posts:
rootypig · 09/05/2014 19:52

YABU. A pregnant person falling endangers a life, and pregnancy makes you more likely to fall. YWNBU to ask address the rest of the carriage to ask someone to give up their seat, but if noone did, she should have been given priority.

I have osteoarthritis in my hip. Sometimes I'm in agony standing. I would always, always stand for a pregnant woman, especially if I were with DH.

TidyDancer · 09/05/2014 19:53

I fail to see how the OP's DW was unreasonable at all. She needed the seat, she was polite about it. The OP was polite about it. OP's DW got to the seat first. That doesn't mean she deserves a tirade of nasty comments by a rude fellow commuter.

OP and DW were not unreasonable and should not have to explain the need for a seat.

shouldnthavesaid · 09/05/2014 19:53

FFS at those asking what disability your wife has and why should she need a seat? What business is it of yours? If she has a medical condition that affects her ability to stand she's entitled to sit down - she shouldn't have to move for a pregnant lady, one of the other passengers should have though.

maddening · 09/05/2014 19:54

the thing is without knowing the full extent of each others need - eg she could be in a very difficult pregnancy with health implications - but as to whether they increase her need over your dw we'll never know to judge- all things equal then it is first come first serve - which means that dw would nbu to take the seat but again we don't know if it was equal.

really the other healthy people sat down - possibly 90% to allow for others with equal or greater need for sitting - were the unreasonable ones for witnessing two people with a greater need than their own for the seat and not offering it up.

I would have offered mine in this circumstance.

I appreciate that hidden disabilities make this so hard but in this case both and equal need imo they both should have been offered a seat.

tomatoplantproject · 09/05/2014 19:54

I have to say that when I was pregnant it was the spd that was the killer and I really did have to sit down. However I was always very polite, very grateful, and never once had any issues with other passengers.

I agree that the issue was with the other passengers, but sometimes it's the way that you ask.

I also think that there everyone knows that rush hour on the tube is horrid, so why put your wife in that position? Could you not have planned your day to avoid the worst times?

MrsAtticus · 09/05/2014 19:54

Awww, poor DW, that sounds like a horrible incident. On our last trip to London I was heavily pregnant with delightful pelvis issues and was incedibly grateful to be given seats (clearly I looked huge), but certainly wouldn't have assumed someone didn't need a seat just from looking at them. YANBU.

GobbolinoCat · 09/05/2014 19:55

But what if the pregnant lady had SPD, felt dizzy, couldn't stand for long periods....should she have to go into all that too? All the personal details of her pregnancy...

BenevolentVole · 09/05/2014 19:55

What is shocking is that not one other person on that train would give up their seat for a heavily pregnant woman, apart from an elderly lady!

BeCool · 09/05/2014 19:55

Not a great situation for anyone.

However your DW had you to help her balance etc. The heavily pg woman did not. Therefore you and your DW ABU.

BUt both of them should have had a seat. Sometimes the tube really sucks.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 09/05/2014 19:55

Well.
I hope your DW is ok. I can see you POV. It's very difficult when one's debilitating issue isn't apparent to others.
I would guess the pregnant woman didn't so much imagine that being pregnant "trumped" everybody else, but rather, did not believe/ accept your DW had a real difficulty that prevented her from standing.
It's unfortunate. Because some ppl can be very cheeky. And it would be easy just to say one had a reason, when one might not. (I have returned from nights out in london where I've been unable to stand Grin Blush)
I doubt the pg woman considered pregnancy a top trump because she didn't take the seat from the "elderly lady"

fifi669 · 09/05/2014 19:55

For starters the other people on the tube were arses.

Hidden disabilities are hard, the pregnant woman obviously had no idea whether you're pulling a fast one or not. I think rather than saying I have a need, I would have said I have arthritis or whatever the condition is just to make it clear.

Forgettable · 09/05/2014 19:55

I have a hidden disability and it sucks sometimes because yes I LOOK able but if I rolled up me trouser leg to show you the scars/screw holes/weirdy skin stretched over the site you would recoil with flappy hands

I just say I have a non obvious disability, and tap the offending limb ruefully

LRDtheFeministDragon · 09/05/2014 19:56

Some people are arses.

Some people are heavily pregnant and disabled, of course.

You'd bloody hope that in this situation someone would have the nous and common decency to stand up for both people, wouldn't you?!

I'd have asked other people in the carriage to stand, I think.

Hope your wife is ok.

KatieKaye · 09/05/2014 19:57

pumpkin - a disabled person is under no obligation to tell complete strangers the nature of their disability. OP stated she has "a number of health issues".
The priority seats are there for those who need them. the pregnant woman lucked out, as OP's DW got there first. And compounding the matter, the only passenger with an ounce of politeness and consideration was the elderly lady!
London tubes are hell in rush hour and you meet very rude people indeed.

Nunyabiz · 09/05/2014 19:57

What gobblino said. Exactly.
In this circumstance pregnant woman should have backed down as soon as you stepped in, but it's your wife's fault for not simply explaining to start with her reason for needing the seat. I don't blame someone with an obvious need for a seat to question someone with a not so obvious reason. It's just natural to be a bit skeptical when it is a reoccurring issue. Commuting in rush hour in London! People lose all sense of chivalry.
Also i have been thrown about on a crowded tube and it's pretty rough! Imagine taking that impact on a pregnant belly! Not good at all. This and that pregnancy can be very very painful and tiring.
This situation is an unusual one I believe and sounds like a heat of the moment thing. Just let it wash over you. Transport and rush hour is not fun for anyone.

GobbolinoCat · 09/05/2014 19:58

I think you should cut her some slack and not take it personally and realise that so many rude people who did not offer a seat is what she deals with every day ....just be happy your wife did keep her seat adn the pregnant lady did not fall.

shouldnthavesaid · 09/05/2014 19:58

Fifi why should you have to though? My mum has seizures, vertigo, several things that mean it's generally best for her to sit as far front as possible on buses (only public transport where we are, don't have trains). I'd be absolutely disgusted if a random passenger felt they had the right to ask her why she needed the seat!

LBUK · 09/05/2014 19:58

What an unfortunate situation and a shame that another passenger did not give up their seat so that your DW and the pregnant woman were able to sit. I think pregnant women should receive consideration and should be accomodated. Someone should have given up their seat but being pregnant does not give you an automatic priority over others who need a seat e.g. disabled, elderly. How terrible that she behaved so rudely and singled out your DW. If sitting were so important she should have asked another passenger.

rootypig · 09/05/2014 19:59

But there are two things at work here

  1. the discomfort the person in question is in (what most people here are referring to)

  2. the risk that a fall poses to each (and the likelihood of such a fall happening)

  3. is less likely but more significant a risk for a pregnant woman - it can induce labour and cause miscarriage - and for me, this is why a pregnant person should always, always be given a seat.

I say this as a 30 year old with osteoarthritis, who has been pregnant in London.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 09/05/2014 20:00

Besides, you've no way of knowing which of the two women would have the most trouble standing on the tube. Maybe the pg woman really would struggle more than your DW.
No excuse for blatant rudeness though.
but I confess (sorry) that I'm always a little Hmm at the mention of "string of abuse" (similarly "torrent of abuse") accompanied by "I/ we politely explained"

LadyRainicorn · 09/05/2014 20:01

When I was heavily pregnant with spd, I simply asked. Ifsome one ignored me I asked the next person. You don't just yell out on the tube, everyone's been conditioned to freeze and ignore loud ranty people on the grounds that there's a significant probability of getting violence and/or abuse if you catch the ranters eye. Instead, you ask each person individually and calmly. YANBU, the pregnant lady was being a dick - what would she have done if the seats were taken by 2 older people? Shout some more? Or be sensible and ask properly?

MrsDH · 09/05/2014 20:01

I am also visting London and took the tube today and noticed 2 women seated wearing baby on board badges .
Neither were in at all obviously pregnant so before the badges came about , I'd never have thought to offer my seat.

I'd a big sleeping two year in my arms
and a unsteady on his feet four year old holding one hand and a bag and folded buggy the other.

No one moved for me but I was thankful to the two men who helped me up and down stairs at St James and Piccadily.

KatieKaye · 09/05/2014 20:02

Gobbolino - I'm sorry there wasn't a seat for the pregnant woman too, but "THIS is what she has to face every day..... I am sorry I dont blame her for being upset" seems rather OTT

She only has to go through this for a finite period of time. Many disabled people have to live with pain and limited ability to do day to day activities all their lives. They don't need (or deserve) to be badgered out of a priority seat just because their disability isn't visible.

LadyRainicorn · 09/05/2014 20:02

And falls are dangerous for anyone ffs.

Pumpkinpositive · 09/05/2014 20:02

pumpkin - a disabled person is under no obligation to tell complete strangers the nature of their disability. OP stated she has "a number of health issues".

Which is what I SAID at the end of my post. I wasn't suggesting the OP's wife tell the woman anything beyond the mere fact that she has a disability, rather than oblique references to having a "need" for the seat.

The nature or severity of the disability is noone's business.