to think a lot of parents seem to let their kids have rather too much say in things

[SEmyarse]

Is it just the people that i'm surrounded by? Or am I out of step and these examples are normal and acceptable? Of course, people can do what they like with their own kids, but this all seems crazy to me.

1. A lady I occasionally work with at a care agency was moaning about how many shifts she's doing at the moment. I was sympathising that money was tight, and then she revealed that although they're struggling to pay the bills, she is prioritising buying her daughter the princess cabin bed she'd demanded. The daughter is 3. She says she's exhausted with all the demands but since she's asked for it, then she must find a way to get it. She just wishes her daughter wasn't so demanding!

2. A lad in dd1's year started at a secondary school right out of area in September requiring 3 bus journeys to get there. She said he'd chosen it. I said she was fantastic facilitating this, but it wasn't for me and dd1 would be going locally. I've bumped into her again now, and she was bemoaning the fact that they're struggling to sell the house because her son has said he's fed up with the buses and wants to live locally to the school. She doesn't want to move.

3. We lift share with dd2's friend for brownies. She hadn't been at school for 2 days so I assumed she would be too ill to go and prepared to take dd2 myself. But then they appeared. I said I thought she was ill, and her mum said she'd complained of a pain in her nose and didn't want to go to school. She also asked to see a doctor, and although her mum didn't think it necessary she took her. She then decided that she WAS well enough for brownies, which seems mad to me if she was deemed too ill for school.

Is it just me that wouldn't put up with this stuff? I've got some time for the negotiation school of parenting, but in all these cases I would be telling the child what's what.

Phil I wouldn't have a problem with your bathrooms as they'll add value to the property and are useful.

I just couldn't justify a cabin bed when I felt dd wouldn't get the use and actually didn't need it.They're not cheap either,we had a budget etc.Not keen on waste.Even if we were loaded I'd have said no however if I was rich enough for individual bathrooms I'd go for it.

Not sure if the above is hypocritical though.

People here are talking about 'children (in plural) making the decisions.
How does this work? Children rarely want the same thing. Take the holiday example. If i asked my 3dcs to make a choice they would present me with 3 different countries. Unless i won the lottery we would have to visit one of them. How is this more democratic than us -the parents-choosing the holidays?

I am sorry but in most cases i know it is not the children who rule. It is ONE of the children who does.Which is very unfair imo and much worst than having your parenrs making the decisions with confidence and fairness.

We have five children between us, although one is a newborn and a stepson.

We go away most school holidays although part of the summer is always spent in France. So we are lucky enough to be able to choose multiple holidays. To be honest the children tend to agree.
Recently we did a multi coast holiday in Florida. Our youngest liked Disney, as did the older ones for different reasons. Our eldest daughter loved Miami for the fashion . My eldest and stepson are good sailors so they l

The eldest loved the Quays.

Most holidays offer different things for different people in the family.

I want your life, Philoslothy!

I suspect you don't really Gerald.

I do too.

I don't care about materialistic stuff but the lack of money for travel I hate.If I was rich I'd take the kids travelling at every available opportunity.It's odd but travel doesn't seem like an indulgence to me,to others I suspect it is.

Horses for courses I guess.

Going back to the OP, yes, I think they are cases of spoiling your children on the face of it BUT, it depends on the manner in which DC are given material things.

If your DC value gifts/ special treats and are thankful for them then they are not spoilt, if things are expected and demanded then I would say they are spoilt.

Regarding allowing children to make their own decisions, I agree but they must be age appropriate. By letting your DC make their own decisions they have an idea of consequences and this is an important lesson to learn.

Our children are a bit like us, they gravitate towards "salt of the earth types". They don't do airs and graces and like people who get mucky, can climb hills and trees and won't screw their nose up at getting stuck in. Perhaps because of that their friends tend to have less than them financially. I think the only time one of ours has commented about the difference was when she came back starving because she had barely eaten all weekend because there was so little food in the house. That was more of a worried comment that a snobby one. Our children have been on the end of some snobbery which tends to amuse them.

It was more a comment on my children than others, we are all just a bit rough to be honest. I suspect my airs and graces are your basic manners.

By muck I mean animal shit not a sports field.

May I ask here...

Have any of you pointed out how 'better off' your children are in a sensitive way to help them to value what they have?

I sometimes feel a little frustrated as he has a hell of a lot more than DH and I did growing up - holidays, a car, activities, nice house (but too small apparently!)

I have.

I've told them about when I was growing up and we didn't have central heating and there was frost on the windows, all my toys and clothes were hand me downs, etc.

DH doesn't really mention it so much but they know he grew up in a house without a car etc.

They do tend to have friends in pretty similar socioeconomic circumstances to we are now, so nice house, two cars, foreign holidays, some designer clothes, lots of toys and gadgets and activities, but it's really important to me that they know not everyone lives like that. My oldest in particular at 14 is very politically aware with a small p and it fits in with my ethics and the work I do and what matters to me that both of them grow up to understand that they have a social responsibility to in some way try to make Thr world a better place as they get older.

But that needs to be age appropriate and not a burden to a small child.

I'm with happymumofone on this one. I think perhaps my perspective is skewed because I teach sixth formers, and often see over bearing parents and the fall out this creates with their children. We consult our children on all our family decisions.

For example, when we chose our family holiday, we gave the daughters three options, and allowed them to choose which one they wanted (they chose going to the commonwealth games, most definitely not my choice, but as they pointed out - they could do Disneyland next year, the commonwealth is a one off experience).

I've allowed DD to decide whether she wanted to take the 11plus or not. She's the one who has got to do all the work for it after all. She's decided not to, and her reasons are very good. Interestingly, when I said if she wanted to go for it, we'd support her all the way, but if not that was fine too (lucky to have an amazing local comp) and she said, she'd think about it, but wanted to consult with us for advice before making her decision. She did, we talked through the various options and she came to a very sensible conclusion.

I've now identified two schools I'm happy for her to attend next year. Final decision will be hers. If her sister goes to the other one, that's fine too. Of course, we will talk her through and help her decision making, pointing out things that a 10 year old might not think about, but the ultimate decision making will be hers.

If if course, I feel she is making bad decisions, I have no hesitation in overruling her (and have done so in the past).

Far from making her a quivering wreck, her school reports consistently say that she is a mature and responsible student. I think teaching her to make sensible decisions is far from spoiling her, but rather I see it as a vital part of responsible parenting.

Just a different perspective.

Thanks LQ and RJ

My DS and DD have never lived any differently to what they know now. I just feel when he is moaning about something I like to point out he is lucky to have x,y,z. He once asked me if we were rich and I replied yes because we have a home, food, schools and hospitals.

I have showed him Youtube footage of children on rubbish tips explaining they were doing this because they were poor and need to live differently.

My DS never seems to notice the difference between where we live (leafy suburb, affluent) and some of the inner city areas (less desirable).

RJ I have told DS about coal fires, frost on single glazed windows, no holidays or cars.

"Have any of you pointed out how 'better off' your children are in a sensitive way to help them to value what they have?"

Mixing when they are teens really brings home how good a patent you have been and how valued your children and their wishes/needs have been respected.

My middle DD never really started to appreciate me fully until she was around 14, this was after the traumatic event if my DH dying from Cancer though.

Now at nearly 19, she not only appreciates financial giving but having a voice in my household, the support that she can count on and the decisions that I have made, that takes into what my children need.

""People here are talking about 'children (in plural) making the decisions. How does that work?""

We go through what we all would like from the holiday, what we do and don't like and reach a decision.

This is easier to do if you count in breaks etc, so that everyone gets a turn.

It's no different than dividing out disposable income.

If you are a family interested in world events, politics and human rights, then your children learn and are informed about living/rights standards around the world, daily, naturally.

These different aspects aren't mutually exclusive.

Lechers that all seems very measured. I would say there is a distinction between it being a process that both parent and child are involved in to reach a decision, to decision being made by parents or child in isolation. I suppose it depends on the decision being made.

I admire your confidence lechers in allowing your DD to make decision about the 11+. What was your thinking behind this? I ask as i see this as a big decision that I feel parents know better - background is I used to be a secondary teacher so maybe Im a bit too 'hot' on the education thing as a whole. I am also feeding my DS8 (yr3) books from the 11+ recommended reading list (slowly) but he is enjoying them..I worry about being too pushy but also about DC missing out on opportunities.

Your comment about overbearing parents pinged me a bit I was once covering a class and notice this boy who just seemed different, nervous like he was upset. I mentioned it to the teacher when they returned and they said his father was incredibly overbearing and put a lot of pressure on him. I always remember his face.

Like your stule, Lechers.

Andsmile, yes, it is hard yo know how much to push.

I constantly ask myself this question!

Allowing your children a say, when they get a bit older, can be great, as you see them actually taking fairly mature decisions at times.

STYLE

Andsmile,

I think the decision was made a lot easier by the fact that we have an excellent local comp, a head teacher I know (used to work with) and have total confidence in and local parents who praise our local school. Last year 30% of students got 5As or A*s at GCSE. This takes the pressure off somewhat .

In contrast, the grammar would be about an hours' commute, with lots of homework and a very long day. Whilst, it would give an outstanding education, there would inevitably be sacrifices to DDs personal life. She currently does a sport, for which she is passionate about (and trains 20 hours a week). Grammar school would make this difficult. DD felt as though she didn't want to make those sacrifices.

However, she is sensible. She's in year 5, and wants to get to the next level in her Sats assessment this year, so asked me to buy her some sats books to help her revise and achieve that level. So I did, and she gets up early every morning and does a page or two from her books before I wake up.

I think I remember reading somewhere that the most important influential factor in a child's education is the mother's educational background, and family support. This is far more significant than the school (so long as the school's okay), so I'm quite chilled about the school, as we'll support DD all the way, and get her tutors if needed at GCSE level. We'll review the situation again before A level.