to think a lot of parents seem to let their kids have rather too much say in things

[SEmyarse]

Is it just the people that i'm surrounded by? Or am I out of step and these examples are normal and acceptable? Of course, people can do what they like with their own kids, but this all seems crazy to me.

1. A lady I occasionally work with at a care agency was moaning about how many shifts she's doing at the moment. I was sympathising that money was tight, and then she revealed that although they're struggling to pay the bills, she is prioritising buying her daughter the princess cabin bed she'd demanded. The daughter is 3. She says she's exhausted with all the demands but since she's asked for it, then she must find a way to get it. She just wishes her daughter wasn't so demanding!

2. A lad in dd1's year started at a secondary school right out of area in September requiring 3 bus journeys to get there. She said he'd chosen it. I said she was fantastic facilitating this, but it wasn't for me and dd1 would be going locally. I've bumped into her again now, and she was bemoaning the fact that they're struggling to sell the house because her son has said he's fed up with the buses and wants to live locally to the school. She doesn't want to move.

3. We lift share with dd2's friend for brownies. She hadn't been at school for 2 days so I assumed she would be too ill to go and prepared to take dd2 myself. But then they appeared. I said I thought she was ill, and her mum said she'd complained of a pain in her nose and didn't want to go to school. She also asked to see a doctor, and although her mum didn't think it necessary she took her. She then decided that she WAS well enough for brownies, which seems mad to me if she was deemed too ill for school.

Is it just me that wouldn't put up with this stuff? I've got some time for the negotiation school of parenting, but in all these cases I would be telling the child what's what.

They must be.

But some children live in big expensive houses, wear the best clothes, go on expensive holidays. Have their parents pay for their education.

Are they spoilt then?

Some are, some aren't. The situation you describe is a strange one in many ways, not least because it' easy to mask a dysfunctional dynamic when the window dressing is high class and very expensive. A top class private boarding school can be parents wanting the best education money can buy for their child, or it can be a way of legitimately getting rid of a child for weeks at a time because they're not wanted. House/clothes/holidays are all status symbols - playing a role and maintaining an image.

My children will work to pay their way through university. They have to work for their allowance now, even down to my six year old. All of my children have at least one morning a week when they are up at six cleaning the animals out. We don't have a cleaner and have a large house to run, so they all have chores every evening. We could easily afford a cleaner but I don't want my children have people waiting on them, their life could be very easy so I want them to experience the realities of having to do it yourself.

I might not be doing it right, I am constantly reading these boards and taking advice, I am always taken aback that some MNers are so certain that their way is right.

I am not maintaining an image, if I am one it is one of a vulgar flashy fishwife.

I just like going in holidays and having nice stuff.

I'm not criticising you, Philosophy.

Blimey if I was loaded my kids would want for nothing.

I just want to know what a 'spoilt child' is

But surely having nice things and the whole family enjoying them, eg 'we live in a lovely house and the dc don't have to live in a kennel in the garden' is totally different to 'the dc don't like this house so we are moving'.
I think there is a new thread coming from this one where people are justifying dc having any quality of life.
I agree with OP children decision making where parents wages are spent as if they are equals is a bit yuk.

That's quite interesting usual. We have a big house but tend to go camping (because we like it). Our kids go to state school because our money is relatively recent. We may well have gone private if we'd had money when they were younger. Their clothes were always stuff like H&M or Next, never labels. But yes, I suppose my kids have always had financial security, they have never heard us argue or worry about money, they have always been able to do the activities they wanted (not ridiculous school trips to China or New York though). Maybe they are in fact very indulged materially, I don't know.

It is actually true that children from lower income families get a better deal as regards university. They get non repayable grants as well as loans, and access to more bursaries. Because of our income DS isn't even eligible for enough loan to pay his accommodation fees. He has a job but we still need to top him up. He also has a loan for his tuition fees. Again this is a bit of a moral dilemma because me and DH were fortunate enough to go to university in the days when it was free for poor kids like us.

DS will have at least £36k of debt. As we have four kids it would cost us £144 to keep them all debt free like we were.

I'm not expressing myself very well here

Philoslothy

My mother is/was all about image, she sent me to one of the best schools in the country...because I'm (in her eyes) a defective freak who she couldn't cope with. On the surface it could look as though I was spoilt (I had designer everything, top gadgets, huge allowance) but the only thing I ever asked for was denied, my mothers love.

Possessions =/= spoiled, believing you deserve everything you want no questions asked = spoilt.

The holidays etc don't have to be status symbols, but in some families they are.

I think we are wandering off topic a bit but...

Rabbit, I'm talking about cases where the quality of the children's home or even the stability of it is compromised by parents prioritising the children's desires over the necessities of paying bills.

It's tough being an adult and saying no...

Oh and Phil, it's great to be open minded but you should know when you look at your kids you are getting it right - its okay to be more confident in your own parenting.

I know you are not criticising . I actually find it really difficult to balance not having to worry about money and not wanting my children to be spoilt. I would be mortified if my children became snobs.

I know plenty of my DSs friends who have wealthy parents and have much more than my DS who are not snobs.

I don't think they are spoilt either.

I think because DH and I have been at the unpleasant end of snobbery we would hate to see it in our own children . Snobbery is my pet hate , it is the thing I find hard on here.

Me too, Philoslothy.

"what if all 3 chose different schools?"

We may get this situation, we laugh about it. It wouldn't be any harder or easier for us than if they were all at same secondary. We wouldn't give them a choice otherwise.

Philoslothy: your six year old does not need an allowance!

OP - I think these parents are trying to their children's friend instead of their parent. Being a parent means you set boundaries and say no :)

Iv just realised we actually very rarely say no. But maybe this is because dc don't really seem to make unreasonable requests.

We are also fortunate to not have money worries. However I don't think spending it makes our children spoilt at all. We might choose to fly first class and stay in nice hotels, but the kids still happily dig on the beach with a stick once we are there. Most 'luxury' things they benefit from is to make our life easier as a family. We also have a part time .housekeeper, she's there to cook some meals and deep clean house due to our long working hours. However my children are still expected to tidy up after themselves. Toys left on floor will go up the Hoover, not be tidied away. Washing not in basket won't be cleaned etc

Me too philoslithy

Parenting doesn't have to be dictatorship or pandering to your child's every whim. There is a happy medium. But nonetheless children do need to be parented.
The child of the friend I mentioned earlier who is literally terrified of upsetting her child is really quite unpleasant to be around. Allowing your 5 yr old to stay up until midnight every night because they 'they don't see why they should go to bed before the adults' or allowing them unlimited sweets due to inability to say no is not parenting and potentially damaging to the child. Said child is already borderline obese. And as others have pointed out, children who have never been told no will end up miserable and unable to cope with real life in adulthood not to mention quite possibly friendless.

My friends dd (age 5) now punches her in the face, she has never had the heart to see dd unhappy so would always move heaven and earth on the kids say so.

For some parents it's a lot to do with their own up bringing.
When I was a child we were so poor that I never felt I fitted in as couldn't have fashionable clothes, shoes, go on holiday or the fair when it came here. I always felt inferior to my peers and in some ways have taken that into adulthood.
I remember starting to get spots and shoplifting some cleansing lotion because my mum wouldn't have been able to buy it.
I remember having an ugly anorak because it was in the sale.
For that reason I have worked my arse off to make sure that my children have been able to have things within reason.
They have all worked hard at school though and never show off if they cant have what they want.
I was a LP for some time so money was limited but the older boys stepped up and helped with childcare for their baby sister and all worked in part time jobs from aged 14.
The boys are adults now and all work hard and have lots of self confidence.
Dd is 12 and is just taking an interest in fashion etc. she hardly asks for anything but I do enjoy seeing her looking and feeling confident with her friends which is something I missed out on.

I remember reading an article about changes in house buying habits. One of the things it said was that estare agents had to selll houses tto the children now, as well as the adults, as they often had an equal say, or more than equal say in which house is bought.

I do think that is crazy. As a child I would have chosen houses for superfacial reasons such as a rope swing in the garden, or a permanent sandpit. All things that can easily be provided anywhere with a garden.