to think a lot of parents seem to let their kids have rather too much say in things

[SEmyarse]

Is it just the people that i'm surrounded by? Or am I out of step and these examples are normal and acceptable? Of course, people can do what they like with their own kids, but this all seems crazy to me.

1. A lady I occasionally work with at a care agency was moaning about how many shifts she's doing at the moment. I was sympathising that money was tight, and then she revealed that although they're struggling to pay the bills, she is prioritising buying her daughter the princess cabin bed she'd demanded. The daughter is 3. She says she's exhausted with all the demands but since she's asked for it, then she must find a way to get it. She just wishes her daughter wasn't so demanding!

2. A lad in dd1's year started at a secondary school right out of area in September requiring 3 bus journeys to get there. She said he'd chosen it. I said she was fantastic facilitating this, but it wasn't for me and dd1 would be going locally. I've bumped into her again now, and she was bemoaning the fact that they're struggling to sell the house because her son has said he's fed up with the buses and wants to live locally to the school. She doesn't want to move.

3. We lift share with dd2's friend for brownies. She hadn't been at school for 2 days so I assumed she would be too ill to go and prepared to take dd2 myself. But then they appeared. I said I thought she was ill, and her mum said she'd complained of a pain in her nose and didn't want to go to school. She also asked to see a doctor, and although her mum didn't think it necessary she took her. She then decided that she WAS well enough for brownies, which seems mad to me if she was deemed too ill for school.

Is it just me that wouldn't put up with this stuff? I've got some time for the negotiation school of parenting, but in all these cases I would be telling the child what's what.

Imho, its is the adults making the decisions. If a mother wants to buy a princess cabin so much, it is her choice.
Kids may want lots of things. Its adults who decide how far they are ready to go.

Friends of mine have a 2 year old granddaughter who tells them and her parents what she will eat and where she wants to go. They indulge her completely and talk about her achievements as if she is Einstein. I have teenage DC and quite honestly fear for them when she becomes a teenager.

I think 'spoilt' is more to do with values, so a child who has been brought up with good values, alongside all the toys etc she wants, won't be spoilt. A demanding child who has every bad-tempered whim catered for, who hasn't been taught that there are other people in the world, that things cost money and parents have to work hard for that money etc etc - that child is spoilt. The child who trashes their toys and then expects them to be replaced just like that - that's spoilt.

I think "all the toys she wants" is spoilt.

Said child has had reality spoilt for them,life isn't like that.

I have never understood the Tesco shopping trip toy buying mentality.A toy because they've been good or want it- just why?

I agree, I detest snobbery; I think it's all too easy for privileged children to have a distorted view of life. I can remember tearing a strip off 12 year old DS after overhearing him and his mate discussing the state of the home of one of their friends, who was being raised by a low paid single mother.

Since then I have realised I need to make a conscious effort to discuss the way of the world with my lot. the whole "Flat screen TV" thing often discussed on here.

DS was telling me last night how may of his crowd overplay the student poverty bit, to get extra money out of their parents. he said they have no concept of budgeting.

Anyhow, my kids have got their biggest life lesson from washing greasy pans in a restaurant for minimum wage.

I wouldnt confuse good behaviour with a good set of values LaQueen though from your previous post they have balanced views and are both.

I have taught teenagers in the past who are polite and study hard chat to them outside the topic, at break times etc and you can reveal some questionable views.

I am pleased to see this thread...I sued to think an exDF indulged her DS far too much in what he wanted to do, anything for a quiet life ended up with a horrible little breat who threw full on tantrums at aged 6. I have since heard he has had problems at school and I can honestly say I can see why.

I give my DC's choice within boundaries set by me. e.g. what park, sandwich filling, top to wear, books. They still have control and choice within their lives, that which does not impede on the wider family.

There are many things I do not given them a choice about as IMO an adult infomred one and responsibility like choosing what they eat for a meal whichi is different to saying would you like meal A or B. Or tell me what healthy dinner you would like tomorrow..

That said there is a balance.

Some things I wouldn't dream of my dc leading the show but there are some other things I would take the dc into account and listen to.

bugger

The trick is to let them think they have a choice when in fact they don't at all. I have a first class degree in selective provision of information and choices. So they feel excited and lucky fir getting to do what you decided would be the case all along

Yes. This is something Ive employed over the years, my Mum did it was us and explained it to me once I was older.

Just saying to a young child 'what do you want, choose' is too much, they get on better if there are boundaries of some sort. So I'd pick 3 things [could be anything from which shoes to buy, or sandwich fillings] and then say choose, those 3 things would be things that I was happy with, could afford and that I deemed appropriate. Importantly, once they made their choice, they had to stick to it.

Once they reach a certain age, you do have to step aside a bit or they will expect everything to be done for them. General idea of the above is that it teaches them to make good decisions.

Re the OP, 1) the 3 yr old and the cabin bed. what do 3 yr olds know about beds? That one is down to the Mum IMO.

The choice of two or three thing works well even when they are toddlers.

Also I have noticed that my 2 year old will choose a top by pointing or saying 'this one'. My DS was never bothered and still isn't. He occasionally says not those pants but otherwise plods along. He does like to have choice over other things, mainly what we do after school - again within reasons.

I guess the individual child matters also.

Yes re the Cabin bed.

Dd wanted one when she got her own room.She would have grown out of it far too quick so she got bought an iron single bed that will see her into teenage years.

A cabin bed would have been wasteful,she understood that.

Our children choose the family meals and that extends to the six yet old. We have a board on the kitchen with everyone's name on it, they all get to choose one meal.
Everyone bar the six year old has to sign up to making a meal, you usually make your own. When stepson was home that was seven choices so covered the week.

Our six year old doesn't need an allowance but DH and I want our children to realise that having anything relies on hard work. In the past I had awful money management skills so that is another reason our children have allowances so they can budget. If my youngest wants to attend an after school club he pays for that by doing a chore. If he wants money for toys , sweets etc he earns that. His bike, he paid a 25% contribution to by doing jobs.

I have let DS choose his secondary school, it was my second choice but i'm not the one that will have to go there every day he is so deserves to have an input.

Holidays and trips we all share, we name places we want to go and choose from them.

Being over strict means that children rebel and go the complete other say when they become parents and too lax and they have no boundaries. Giving them a say doesnt mean they rule the roost but teaches them that all opinions matter and they learn reason.

I grew up on a notorious council estate, I was not allowed into certain homes because of that. My family were notorious local criminals and I was often uninvited to parties because of that. Other girls often refuses to welcome me into their group because of my family but also I was uncool due to the fact that my I lived I charity shop clothes and my parents were pissed, high or on prison so nobody cleaned my clothes. Children can do snobbery.

Aged 10 I was sent a fake valentines card from a boy that I had a crush on. I wrote him a letter back and it was read in front of the whole class while they laughed at me.

I can remember being teased because I could not say wat my parents did for a living. I was skinny because other children would whisper things at me as I collected my free school meal, so I just stopped eating in school even though there was rarely food at home.
I can remember at university being told by fellow students that I was there as part of some kind of experiment because people like me didn't go to university mind a good one. As an adult I think in my case they are right.

Sorry awful typing, am on iphone with fat fingers

Philosophy, as someone who grew up in a very rough council estate, I also totally agree that children can and do do snobbery.

DH and I bought a new car recently. DH went out and tried out the carseats in the back (we have 3 kids under 7). Once he'd checked which cars actually fitted our 3 seats in the best (S Max for anyone who is interested) the whole family went to look at the car, I test drove it and we spoke to the eldest in particular and asked what she thought. She didn't have a say in the purchase in reality but she certainly had an opinion and said what she thought about the things we asked her about. The salesman indulged that and so was 'selling' to her but we all (except DD1) knew that she wasn't the decision maker.

I'm sure estate agents do the same and when we buy a new house we'll do similar, one of the adults will go and make an initial assessment then the whole family will go and look.

I think there some lovely examples if inclusive family decisions on here. Whether low or high importance. I think it reflect the democracy we live in (supposed) and the idea if freedoms.

It can also be the opportunity to teach a child the consequences if their actions/decisions. dis will frequently opt to do something after school then run out of time to do Lego. I point out times etc as he is still learning to gage this, but also the idea that you simply can't do everything, or have everything. I don't create extra Lego time. He gets ready for bed!

Plus I think having opinions and being listened to is being part of a decision making process not ness airily the final decision maker, which is very healthy. It teaches listening considering other views, reasoning etc.

I do think that it is difficult to escape your own childhood when parenting. I can be frivolous with money because being able to buy what I want - within reason - is still quite exciting to me . I buy myself daft things in a moment of excitement and therefore do the same for my children.

If one of mine wanted a bed that was perhaps not the sensible choice I would probably buy it tbh.

My thing is bathrooms. Growing up, we had an outside loo and a filthy tiny bathroom. The bath was often filled with home brew.

When we built our own home, each child had their own bathroom. I have a huge bathroom which is accessed by a walk in wardrobe. I am sure that the average MNer would wrinkle their nose and mention footballers' wives. It does not take much thought to realise that I am trying to repair my childhood. I am sure many MNers would think that my children are spoiled, however I have tried hard to give then not just things but a sense of humility, an understanding of hard work, lots of time and love.

I get you Phil...material wealth is often associated with spoilt I don't think this is the case. It depends on how items are given and what other values are taught to the children.

I'm assuming you worked hard to get to uni? Bet you've passed on a great work ethic. For eg. I say this as ,y background has element of yours and I worked hard to get to uni.

I did work hard but no harder than most people. I do suspect I was given a place because I ticked lots of boxes. I was also lucky to be in the right place at the right time.