to feel screwed over by our society, can't afford a home, can't afford children, can't afford car

[Lauranda]

I'm in my early 30s, had a great up bringing, do a job I like and got married last year. I do feel very lucky.

However where we live in the south east, all we can afford to rent is a badly converted 1 bed flat with a damp problem. Can't really save much and are very economical with our money so can't see ever affording anything bigger and could never bring up a child here.

My parents managed to get a large 4 bed Edwardian house on one sallery when I was growing up and dads job level was about the same as dh. No way could with double sallarys afford anything near that lifestyle.

Parents keep saying my time will come, but looking at the statistics that seams very wishful thinking. Parents have kindly offered 15k to help get a house but to be any use would need much more than that and to pray interest rates never rose much.

Am I alone in just being unable to afford children even though we both work full time?

Boffinmum, thats very applaudable but the point is why should people have to do such a thing? I havn't had to move out my local area to get a decent house and I don't even have a job. How can it be seen as normal and acceptable for 2 high earners to only be able to afford a damp 1 bed tower block flat?

Scarlett, I havn't addressed or responded to you any worse than you have to me. Theres nothing provocative about anything I have posted, you just don't agree with me. Thats fine, but why not just admit it is a simple disagreement rather than try to make me out to be 'provocative'. You dont agree with me, that doesn't mean I'm trying to wind you up.

Can you not accept some things are important to some people and arn't to others? Are are you really that narrow minded and believe only your opinions and feelings are valid?

Get a grip 22, I never once said that.

Ok there we have it, you personally cant understand why people do not want to move for work. Thats ok, but you must accept many people have valid reasons for not wanting to move away, and consider those reasons more important than any career/financial opportunities. Thats up to them.

All about priorities isn't it?
Since my dad died last year it has been very important to me to be near mum (as well as necessary due to her ill health)
I also wanted my dc to have a close relationship with their GPS, which they do.
Doesn't mean I am right or that my way is the right way...just the right way for me at this stage of my life
Maybe that would help the op? To see this as just one stage of her life?

Badvoc, sorry to hear about your Dad.
Yes I can see there are times when being near family is the most important thing. Everything comes at a cost and if the OP chooses that, the cost is the size of the home. That is fine, it's simply the cost or the consequence of a choice.
You are right that things don't have to be forever, but might be for a phase. This is true, but as time passes sometimes our options reduce. There is a point after which we cannot have children or beyond which we cannot get a mortgage,mor beyond which moving and starting again might be harder.....so we do need to have an eye on the longer term implications of current decisions.

Badvoc is right - it's all about priorities and the choices you make.

DH and I met at university, and have settled down about halfway between both sets of parents (22honey's comments about wanting to live near family made me smile - this is only possible if you marry someone from the same place as you, or marry someone who doesn't mind being far away from their parents!). One of our priorities was to live somewhere where we felt comfortable and safe, so we moved away from the cheap university city to a nearby city which is a lot nicer, and has better employment opportunities, but is more expensive to live in.

This has meant that we only bought our first house a few years ago (aged 33 and 36), much later than friends who stayed in the city we all went to university in, and have a smaller first house (1-bedroom!) than they had. But I admit to and accept those choices - we knew that we would sacrifice X (cheap housing, staying near friends) to get Y (living somewhere nicer with better job possibilities).

We also struggled to buy as we were renting while saving the deposit, and ended up buying a house that was small and needed a lot of work to be done. We managed to get a mortgage with a £5k deposit, but were paying high interest rates (three years fixed-term). We're now selling the house, and the combination of improving the condition of the property and house prices rising a bit here mean we should be able to buy a 2-bedroom house in the same area. This is partly down to luck and partly down to being willing to accept a few years living in less-than-ideal conditions.

The OP states that they need to stay in the area as her DH's business is based there, but can't afford to buy in the area. It's left me wondering why you made the decisions for your DH to start his own business when you presumeably were planning to buy a house in the next few years, and why you decided to stay in the area where you couldn't afford to buy a house and set up a business based there?

Take it one step at a time. Your dh is starting up a business. Presumably he is self employed, and will only take home as much money as he can make. The first few years of a startup are super tough and not usually very profitable/cash generating. Expect to plough money back into business until it is self sustaining.

You could live in a cheaper area and commute, rent a studio apartment and live very frugally until you build up savings from a deposit, and focus on your career to build up your earnings potential. If you're not already qualified, do it now if it would increase your earnings.

Life is a bit tough sometimes. Your parents' generation probably did scrimp and save more than you realize/they remember, at least at first when they were establishing themselves as a family. Did they get on the housing ladder at a younger age, and work their way up? (ie their home equity may have been due in part to rising house prices) This might be why they are encouraging your to get into the market.

PS another option is to buy a "doer upper" and renovate using a lot of your own work. Friends of mine did this, and it took them around 4 years in total, but they now have a beautiful low-maintenance home with a very reasonable mortgage.

Why should people have to do such a thing as move - Is the question posed.
You don't. People can stay on benefits or in low paid work or unable to buy anywhere forever.

What shines right out on this thread though is those of us who have made a lot of sacrifices over many decades and worked extremely hard do much better and from the sound of the thread are a lot happier. So you can pick our course or not but our course works. If you don't pick the course which works you cannot really expect sympathy when things are not going as well for you as it does for those of us who have moved or worked two jobs or spent our teenage years swotting for very hard exams when most girls are out getting drunk. We reap what we sow in life.

It's almost like a morality tale - this thread.

Life is tough for most people some of the time but the wise advice on the thread will help those trying eventually to buy somewhere. No one has ever given me a single penny. Plenty of us who own a house are in the same position. Also we all tend to have started with some not to great place where most people would not want to live, worked hard and over the decades moved up and on.

It comes back to my watch word/phrase - Jam tomorrow - that toddler deferment test - do you want your one biscuit now or can you wait for 2 later?

We need to breed and condition that postponement, that stoicisim, that work ethic into the children of this nation.

My dad lost his job in the 90's. He had to move to the other side of the country to take a new job.

My first job out of school was 1,000 miles away from my home town. I now live 5,000 miles from my closest relative. My husband's sister lives about 5,000 miles away. My in-laws live about 500 miles away from us (but visit very frequently). I don't know anyone who lives very close to their parents.

I don't think you can reasonably expect to live near your family all your life anymore.

JessicaMary how utterly snotty to suggest that only 'your course' of action in life works. The fact is some people will always be low paid, and it says a lot about your character that you are putting them in some sort of box as having not made the right choices in life. Some people are just not able or interested in attaining a high paid job. They still work hard like other people.

Some people do not want to buy a house and would rather rent, so the 'course' that would lead to home ownership wouldn't be the best one for these people.

I am only 23 in a few months time aswell, so havn't had decades to build anything up (you will probably try and use my age against me now, as is common on here and really just shows said posters immaturity and insecurity) yet, so that post clearly doesn't apply to me because anything could happen in my future.

You also probably started your 'course' in life at a time when things were not as bad economically as they are now, so you are clueless to what people 'decades' younger than yourself are going through right now.

Older people banging on about how hard they had to work to get where they are really annoy me, you were saving etc in different times and its rather deluded to try and apply your position to that of today's younger generation.

' or worked two jobs or spent our teenage years swotting for very hard exams when most girls are out getting drunk. We reap what we sow in life.'

You are utterly unbelievable and stuck up to boot. Its so rude to presume that because someone hasn't achieved as much as you have in life that they spent all their time getting drunk. You do realise some people have serious problems in their young lives that put a stop gap in education? No, you probably don't because you are ignorant, narrowminded and have a simplistic view of life and people's personal situations.

CountessV where are you from? Because I do not know anyone besides 2 people who do NOT live near there parents (ie the same region of the country). It seems to be the norm up here for a large amount of people. It probably helps that its possible to be low paid up or jobless up here AND live a reasonably comfortable lifestyle.

their* parents.

I find it extremely odd and telling that you think you can tell who is happy or not by their posts and views on a particular subject. You really are very sure of yourself, arn't you? Beyond that because you come across snotty, stuck up and out of touch with comments like that. Why would you presume that because someone hasn't gone down the same life plan as yourself, that they are unhappy or less happy than you?

Unbelievable.

I'm from the US. I should not have said that I didn't know anyone who lived near their parents, but rather that they are in the minority.

22honey, why are you so stroppy?
This is a debate and people are entitled to express their views.
There is lots of wise advice on here. If you are 22 you do have your whole life ahead of you. Many of the people posting here who are older and struggling, would have benefitted from reading this thread when they were 22, because choices which people make when young clearly have longer term consequences.
The OP is 10 years older than you. What do you think you might do so you are in a different position to her in 10 years time? Things may be hard and maybe even harder then, but there are chances to succeed.

Is it really so hard for you all here to understand that there's a range of options here? The key word, as I mentioned earlier, is compromise. Which particular aspects of life we compromise on aren't always within our gift. I would love to stay near family and friends, but for a wide range of reasons - not possible. I have moved a lot, am geographically far from those close to me, and have survived savage depressive episodes and serious suicide attempts (nobody to this day understands how). Bottom line though, I still understand that difficult choices have to be made, and often there's no right or wrong answer as such. Sometimes staying in the same place with difficult memories can be damaging to mental health too.

Most of you are right in one respect or another - please respect that and be civil to each other. Nobody has all the answers here and one size doesn't fit all.

22 - Thanks for your earlier acknowledgement of my view.

Should add, BTW, that MH issues for me are not related to moving away - just to be clear.

22honey - perhaps you should read back your own posts and maybe you will realise just how obnoxious you are being.

It is odd that practically everyone else posting on this thread is at odds with you. Perhaps it is your attitude that is a problem?

'Older people banging on' might 'really annoy you', but you have an opportunity to hear a whole load of experience and advice that we weren't privy to years ago when we were your age. Perhaps taking on board advice and listening to differing opinions and experience, as well as sharing your own would be a better option than just shouting 'old people' down?

and I'm not even fucking old!!!

I think that it is the norm in some areas and communities, that extended families live near each other.
And in other areas and communities, not.

fwiw, the area I live in has about 50/50? Yet not so far away, probably only about 10% have moved away.

And which group are happiest? Not sure. I think the ones that have stable and goodish jobs and family near are maybe the happiest.

Followed by those living away.

Followed by those still living near, but jobs not plentiful and insecure.

OP, we moved from an expensive area to a cheaper one to be near family as we had moved away when younger.
It enabled us to have more house for our money, although we didn't gain with cc as I am a sahm, the dc had a better lifestyle.
My dh has always been self employed and more recently a business owner. We moved 250 miles and picked up business. It isn't difficult unless your business is only relevant to a particular area.
Our dc didn't starve, we just started marketing for local work straight away. Could your dh top up self employed work with a pt employed position.

I'm on Carers allowance - that's a government benefit.

I'm working so haven't read every post ( yes those of us who do rather well actually work on bank holidays and believe it or not we tend to get on in life in consequence - we all tend to reap what we sow).

Please say that the above was a tongue in cheek comment jessicamary, surely no one could be so fucking pompous to actually have said that in all seriousness.........?