To refuse to move to USA with hubby

[CookieTramp]

I don't know what I'm really after here, but please offer your perspective.

We moved to where we are 2 years ago and I love it. Ds1 hs in reception class at school and it's a great school. I have a 4mo baby.

Husband's company wants him in NY and has upped offer to $150,000, and DH says we will be able to save £1000+ a month on that, whereas here we are not able to save. I don't work at the moment, except a little freelance from home.

The main reasons I can't agree are: 1. My mum. She is more my mainstay than DH, really. She has a fantastic bond with DS1 and will have with DS2. We need her and also it will break her heart. We have very little family and my dad died 7 years ago. 2. We will lose the school place and with the squeeze on places could easily get one out of area. 3. I do not know if we really will save what DH says and no clue how to work it out definitively. Relocation package is €5,000, which to me seems like it won't touch the sides what with flights to and fro and furnishing a 4-bed house out there from scratch.

Main issue I suppose is our relationship is not great and DH has never grasped the concept of emotional support. He takes his responsibilities seriously and gives lots of his time to the kids but I don't feel he is really there for me. I'm too scared to leave all my other supports and put myself in a position where he is all I have. We were in Relate last year and DS2 was conceived in fit of optimism thereafter.

So DH is desperate to go, as the job there is beyond his wildest dreams. I would hate to hold him back from that. One possibility is he goes for a year on his own (he needs at least the first two big projects) but how could I do that to DS1, even if I could do it to DH?!

It seems impossible whichever way I turn and we need to decide soon. Hubby keeps saying about financial gain (but is it really?!) and I will make new friends but the biggest loss is my mum and the school place. dH says would be for a couple of years.

Over to you. I am soooo stressed and distressed.

Confused. "It wasn't unreasonable expectations in me" (that was causing the problem) and he was quite rubbish". Ergo, they were/are reasonable.

"And if the relate counsellor said your expectations were unreasonable that doesn't seem right to me".

So he did not say my expectations were unreasonable; he said they WERE reasonable.

As hes downtown, NJ does make sense with path trains tp the wtc.

There are some lovely towns in nj like Princeton which has excellent schools and a real international feel because of the university.

Personally though I'd prefer Brooklyn as NYC has so much to offer and it'll be easier to get out and about and make friends- there are endless groups and activities. But that's a separate thread once you've decided to go or not!

Good luck op. We were in your position not so long ago and its agonising! As long as your Dh listens to your concerns, im sure you'll make the right choice for your family.

I was an expat for a couple of years (Middle East) and it was my spouse who wasn't into it...

It was very, very hard. He resented me for dragging him there (I didn't we discussed it at length) made no effort to enjoy himself and I then resented him for leaving everything to me when we were out there. It still has repercussions on our relationship now.

Getting the right money and relocation package is very, very important. Please go onto the NY or US forum at britishexpats website. People on there will help you with everything you need to know and will give you very very good solid advice. Listen very seriously to what they recommend. Only listen to people who have relocated to the same place as you - they are the ones who will know exactly what the deal is with money, rents, insurance etc. Pointless knowing what that salary would mean in Utah or Baltimore or Detroit. I went on a HUGE salary that looked wonderful from where I was sitting in the uk. From where I was moving to however it wasn't as nearly as good, as rents, outgoings and hidden taxes ate into it more than I would ever have imagined. Also, set up costs were massive and many unexpected. My first offer was laughable really but I wouldn't have known that without the forum.

If it hadn't been for the britishexpats forum I would have made some very, very bad mistakes and I'm truly glad I spent so much time on it nailing my package down. At the very least you need to make sure flights, relocation costs, holiday flights, insurances, first few months accommodation, expenses etc are all covered. If the 24 year old HR woman doesn't know (And it sounds like she doesn't) then they need to employ a relocation expert who does. Relocating a family is serious business. They need to take it seriously.

Also, it is very, very different relocating with no children. When everything went tits up at my firm I was insanely jealous of those couples and singles who had simply to pack their bags and go. I had schooling issues, huge relocation costs etc, same when originally going out there... I spent the first six weeks just sorting everything out for me and my family and we were in paid for hotel accommodation during that time. It was much harder than I imagined. My unburdened just had to think about themselves and were sorted with all the essentials way quicker.

I can understand the stars in his eyes - I am very glad we lived abroad. It was an incredible adventure, my kids loved every minute and despite my husband's general unwillingness to embrace the experience we had some brilliant times. But you have to go into these things with eyes wide open and make sure you have a get out plan, a back up plan and a worst case scenario plan. I'm saying all this and I'm the risk taker - the risk taker who has been there though!

Don't worry too much about schools: we took ours out of their first school abroad after five months and relocated to another area because my daughter was so unhappy. They then spent a year and a half in a fabulous school but when we came home (after a fab trip round India - better than waiting the six weeks for the furniture to arrive in an empty house) there were no places for them at the school they'd gone to. My son got in after a few weeks only for me to take him out after a month as it was not nearly as good as I'd originally thought when he'd first started as a 4 year old! They arednow in a school six miles away but it was the perfect place for them and again I have no regrets. What you think is perfect now may not be in two or three years.

He has to understand that going without getting EVERYTHING nailed down with regards to relocating the family is massively naive and idiotic on his part. At least when I was going I researched, researched and researched some more. I owed that to my family. He owes it to you all to do his own fucking homework.

"I know what you mean, but in Relate last year it was pretty much concluded that it wasn't unreasonable expectations in me (I was never sure) and that he is just quite rubbish at that stuff."

Yes I get what you said - (here) - your expectations were reasonable.

I was just wondering though if you have given up trying to work on yourselves.

Fabby, fantastic advice. Will do that. Whether he will remains to be seen. :-/

Animation, no, we haven't given up but it has disappeared in a fog of late-pregnancy hell followed by arrival of new baby who still sleeps very very badly.

The risk with moving in this situation is that any problems in your relationship will move with you unless they have been resolved. I think that your DH has to decide whether his dream job is more important than your happiness.

I know someone who was in a similar situation to you. Her husband was offered his dream job in a country that his DW didn't want to live in. She decided to make the best of things 'for the sake of the children' rather than live apart from her DH. They ended up divorcing after she came home with the DC as the reality was even worse than she had thought.

Please don't make this move as your marriage isn't strong enough. It's fair to tell your DH that you have decided that you won't be going because it isn't what you want.

Blimey, I think other posters have said a lot, but just to add on the financial side, that salary isn't good. It would be a good salary for a 'single person with paid for accommodation/work benefits', not supporting a family.

I do agree there are plenty of 'short term pain so the family can be set up for life' jobs. This isn't one of them. So you're basically emotionally calling it on whether you actually want the day-to-day life of being in the USA.

I'm sorry, but it's categorically absolute nonsense that $150k is not a "good" salary, even here in NY. How do you think the vast majority of people in the Tri-State survive?! It's just not a saving a grand a month/living in the very best school districts/owning a huge house/having a reasonable commute kind of good. Unfortunately, they're the kind of incentives that attract expats!

OP, if you do decide to come out here, I can suggest plenty of solid school district towns with good amenities where $150k would put you in the higher end of earners in the locality. The downside would be these are more local towns, where whole generations of families live and it might be harder to make friends. That, and the commute.

Also, an L2 does not need the permission of the L1 to take the children out the country.

I agree, I don't think from a financial view point it's the $150k that's the problem, just the relocation package. If the company really want the dh and are prepared to follow the advice of a relocation expert then I think financially they would probably be OK. We lived near Maplewood for a while and I thought it was very nice and a place you could make friends and bring up a family (although this was 6 years ago and much can change).

Whether you can also save depends on too many lifestyle factors and I think you need to look very carefully at the way you live now and the way you might potentially live in the States. I know that when we moved to NYC we spent a lot more money than we did in London, and that there were quite a few hidden costs of being an immigrant.

The issues about your relationship are I think more pertinent, although much more difficult to assess. We made our move just after dh and I got back together after a two year separation (a bit insane I know!) and it worked for us, even though dh discovered very quickly that it was not a dream job at all (very dysfunctional office that was then closed a few months after we arrived - nightmare!).

Just to prove my point (and because I'm bored waiting for DS to finish soccer), here are some of the median household incomes for various towns in 2011...

Scarsdale (very expensive town in Westchester, the kind where 16 year olds drive around in their own BMWs) $220k

Ridgefield, Ct $102k

Summit, NJ $114k

New City NY. (longer commute but nice town in Rockland County) $111k

Pleasantville NY (lovely, walkable town in Westchester) $105k

Ridgewood, NJ. $146k

All of these towns are affluent, very low crime and have great schools.

Nooka, I agree with you re the relocation package. 5 grand really is nothing.

There is actually a town called Pleasantville?

Dozer, yes! And it's very, very pleasant indeed!

Hi again, sorry I've been a little busy, just caught up with the thread.

On the subject on driving licenses, it differs in each state but I believe in NY you would need to get a license eventually, but in the short term they do honour international ones (so hiring/leasing a car while you're getting settled shouldn't be a problem). And to be honest the tests are seriously easy if you're used to UK standard.

But I will never get used to being able to turn right on a red light and the lack of roundabouts!

I totally agree with what Nooka said regarding lifestyle. When we were considering our move we looked at how we were living in the UK and whether we could have a comparable couple of years in the US. We never had any intentions of renting a house here. My mum & PIL are both in their 70's and didn't want to visit us whilst we are here. We saw little point in paying money to have empty rooms. This has freed up money to pay for myself and DD to visit the UK and for a family holiday to the West Coast.

For the OP - I researched and organised the move by myself so if you need any information please feel free to ask me any specifics. Also, I have seen that several posters have recommended the British Expats site. I can also attest that they are a fantastic resource - I am also a regular poster on there too.

TheZeeTeam - They are lovely towns. I would also add Westfield and Madison. We are living in Ridgewood

FFTMC, really?! I run there sometimes! I have a friend that lives there and we meet up at the Duck Pond.

I wouldn't run in certain areas of my hometown. Depends. I lived in Denver for a few years, though, and would run in most areas.

I lived in the USA for my ex-dh's job when my kids were young (3 and 6) and loved the experience. But our marriage wasn't strong and he was working long hours. Without the support of friends and family our marriage fell apart anyway after 6 months. But I don't regret going as I always wanted to travel and loved the experience. Depends what you want from life perhaps? Kids adjusted really well to both moves - we kept our house here as the move was only temporary and we rented it out - could that be an option?

Isn't 5K more like the cost of a 2 week (cheap) US holiday, not relocating your entire life?

Try putting it like that to him.

DON'T sell your house here!

Of all the advice given on britishexpats the following was essential and I followed it to the letter:

Don't sell your house here
Don't buy a car within the first six months/year
Don't spend any of your own money on things that your company should be providing as you'll never see it again
Don't get into debt in that country
Have an escape plan
Get everything in writing from the head of your department/HR director before stepping on a plane.

Admittedly the Middle East is more nuts and when things go wrong they go wrong VERY quickly ( two people I worked with had to run, leaving everything in situ like the desert villa approximation of the Marie Celeste) but I still think it's all good advice. Some dream jobs turn out to be fucking nightmares very, very quickly and you may want to get back sooner than you think.

TheZeeTeam - We are also regulars at the Duck Pond. We take our dog to the run there and then walk along the Saddle Brook pathway! We live on the "Wholefoods" side of Ridgewood.

Definitely don't sell your house!

Negotiate a leased car.

The Wholefoods are better there [sob]. Last night, I dreamed a huge Trader Joe's was being built in our town. As if.