To refuse to move to USA with hubby

[CookieTramp]

I don't know what I'm really after here, but please offer your perspective.

We moved to where we are 2 years ago and I love it. Ds1 hs in reception class at school and it's a great school. I have a 4mo baby.

Husband's company wants him in NY and has upped offer to $150,000, and DH says we will be able to save £1000+ a month on that, whereas here we are not able to save. I don't work at the moment, except a little freelance from home.

The main reasons I can't agree are: 1. My mum. She is more my mainstay than DH, really. She has a fantastic bond with DS1 and will have with DS2. We need her and also it will break her heart. We have very little family and my dad died 7 years ago. 2. We will lose the school place and with the squeeze on places could easily get one out of area. 3. I do not know if we really will save what DH says and no clue how to work it out definitively. Relocation package is €5,000, which to me seems like it won't touch the sides what with flights to and fro and furnishing a 4-bed house out there from scratch.

Main issue I suppose is our relationship is not great and DH has never grasped the concept of emotional support. He takes his responsibilities seriously and gives lots of his time to the kids but I don't feel he is really there for me. I'm too scared to leave all my other supports and put myself in a position where he is all I have. We were in Relate last year and DS2 was conceived in fit of optimism thereafter.

So DH is desperate to go, as the job there is beyond his wildest dreams. I would hate to hold him back from that. One possibility is he goes for a year on his own (he needs at least the first two big projects) but how could I do that to DS1, even if I could do it to DH?!

It seems impossible whichever way I turn and we need to decide soon. Hubby keeps saying about financial gain (but is it really?!) and I will make new friends but the biggest loss is my mum and the school place. dH says would be for a couple of years.

Over to you. I am soooo stressed and distressed.

On what basis has he concluded that?

You would probably not get a work permit and be abke to work. Are you ok with that?

Do you have a "running away fund"? Some money to tide you over if you ever wanted to leave?

If not, you could feel very trapped without support network and without financial independence.(this happened to me! It feels horrible, never make that mistake again)

He knows that you don't want to go and that it's not just about the finance. He's focussing on that because it's a tangible thing that can be proved. He should be focussing on the fact that you don't want to go.

Mainly on the basis of Farfromthemaddingcrowd's post.

*We moved to NJ in June 2013 for an initial 2 years. I would agree with the general consensus that you will probably not be saving £1000 per month on a salary of $150000, especially if you need to rent a 4 bed house or live in NYC.

As a guide, we are a family of 3 (dd is 13) + dog. We live in a top performing school district, so no school fees. I'm not sure what happens with kindergarten age children though.

We live in Bergen County in NJ and hubby commutes by train to Midtown daily. We are saving money primarily because we are renting a small 2 bed apartment. This costs $2300 p/m - 3 bed houses start at around $3500 p/m, with 4 beds at $4k +.

Our total monthly outgoings are $6300 - which leaves us around $2400 p/m. The outgoings include the following:

Rent, car lease, car insurance, umbrella insurance, pet insurance, contents insurance, TV, landline, broadband, gas, electricity, mobile phones x 3, YMCA membership, train pass, groceries & savings of $2000 p/m.

I left money in our UK bank accounts to continue pay our life insurance in the UK (insurers know we are living in the US).

We do not feel as if we are struggling at all. We eat out weekly, go shopping, cinema, drive to visit places at the weekend, sightsee in NYC... TBH, we rarely spend up to our monthly limit - some months we only spend around $1000.*

From this he's worked out that while our rent would be higher, his income would be higher to compensate. We don't go out much so if this poster is saving $2400 a month then we would save at least that, which is the level he said we would be at. So although this poster says we would not save, apparently the figures show that we would.

And of course while I do not want to go, I know that we save nothing where we are and are on an interest only mortgage. If the figures probe that we would save/pay off some mortgage, I can 't ignore that and might have to suck it up. And that's where the figures become crucial.

He seized on the post I quoted because it's one of the only ones based on NJ esther than the city. With other posts that give figured, he says "they're clearly talking about living in Manhattan, and of course we wouldn't save anything if we tried to have a house in Manhattan."

Prove not probe, and rather not esther. !

Well, if he is so sure you would save, get him to prove it to you.

Ask him to show you his estimate for location costs, and his estimate for living costs, backed up by information about rents, etc, that contradicts your research.

He wants to go, so the onus is on him to make it work for your family.

I have been lurking for a while and while I have never relocated to the US, we have moved to other places, and it costs an absolute fortune to relocate.

But the fact that your relationship is not at it's best - would be an absolute no way from me.

What happens if you get there try and are so miserable you want to return, can you ? Would you personally have the money to do that independently? I think if you are going you would need to have an exit strategy in case your relationship goes wrong, I would need exit finances and to know for 100% that I could return with my children if I had to.

I should add I am not against relocating and living overseas I have done lots of it, but I get the sense you are being pushed/ guilted into it and that's a disaster to begin with.

This s a no brainer for me. I wouldn't go. There is only one reason to go to NY - because he likes the job he's been offered. There are many reasons not to go - you don't want to, your son's schooling would be disrupted, your kids would see far less of your mum, youre marriage isnt great. Moving to another country is a huge decision, and should only be done if both people in a couple are in total agreement. I wouldn't even be considering it.

sanity he did sit down and do that last night. Finally.

He wants me to post the figures on the Living Overseas board and see if people already in NY (preferably NJ though) think they stack up. Then when we've tweaked it more, our financial adviser is going to get on it like a rash and test it further and merge it with our costs here and our life insurance and pension, etc.

OP would you seriously consider going, if the money was right?

Because quite frankly, if I was in your situation, a relocation payment of a million wouldn't persuade me.

Yes, I guess I still would, because I want a stable financial future for my boys. Crazy notion, maybe, but that plus asking DH to turn down something at the level this opportunity is...

Some relocation can be claimable as, effectively, expenses, but some of it just counts as extra income and is liable for tax

When I relocated domestically, a few years ago, I was given up to the HMRC maximum, which was then £7,000. I don't work in a high money profession, so that was the maximum. I'd say for anyone in a situation where their employer is asking/requiring relocation, the HMRC maximum should be your minimum.

But honestly, your DH doesn't sound like much of a employer's catch to me, if he can't even be bothered to work out costs or negotiate with you. What are his business skills like if his personal skills are not good?

I know you said your mother couldn't move out with you but could she come out for, say, 3-6 months per year and stay with you?

And I agree with everyone who has said the relocation package is ridiculously low. I've just had £15k to move within the uk and am an engineer, not finance.

That poster is renting a 2 bed though when you wanted a 4 bed.

He needs concrete examples of 5 possible rentals, commuting costs from there and local taxes etc.

One thing to add when looking at figures - when you get there be prepared to have no credit rating whatsoever. This is a pain in the bum in many ways but one thing we didn't expect is having to shell out sometimes up to $500 just to get cable TV or broadband. They take it off your bills after 6 months or so but it's a pain on day 1 when you have to pay to kit out your house.

I think while monthly the figures may work it's the initial costs that will be a problem. The physical relocation plus new furniture, cars and electrical stuff (nothing with a plug will work) will cost a fortune. Also any relocation deal must cover repatriation costs because it is so easy to get carried away with going and forget about coming back.

Also have you looked at Craigslist to get an idea of rent?

Good luck whatever you decide.

Why can't your dh negotiate a 12 month package for him alone that includes regular time off and flights home? Whilst he is there he would have the freedom to work long hours etc. when back in the UK as well as some proper time off he could also be available via email etc.?

I really wouldn't go, you will be very vulnerable out there with zero emotional support.

Well, personally I would say no way, because of all the many reasons other posters have given you. But if you're determined to consider it, then I think a reasonable compromise would be to suggest your DH takes the job and goes on his own, and sees how it goes for maybe a year. After all, what if you went and he hated it, or the finances just didnt work, or you were just too miserable - you'd have lost DS's school place and have caused all that upheaval for nothing. Much better for him to give it a trial run on his own, and for you to follow if it feels right later.

That makes a lot of sense, Jolly. It is just so hard to contemplate seeing my son without his dad around, knowing I'm the reason why.

As to rental costs, I spent the small hours while up with 4mo looking online, and he's right that a 3 bed in NJ (used FarFromTheMaddingCrowd's Bergen County as test place (hubby talks about Maplewood) can be had for $3000-3500.

Mohave let 4-bed go as kids could share to accommodate my mum's stays and the places are huge.

Kids get almost three months of summer hols in the states. You could spend all that time in the UK with your mother, perhaps? And she could fly over in between for long trips?

I think you could make this work, actually. I personally would probably go, but it really depends on the state of your marriage. Do you love each other deeply but just accept that your DH is rubbish at emotional support? Because I love my DH with all my heart but the family cat is better at soothing my anxiety than he is . I just accept that he isn't superman and I can't rely on him to meet all my needs and that's fine.

If you go, look very carefully at neighbourhoods and the culture that each one has. The suburbs are very different from each other and you could end up in a quasi urban place with a fun, village feel. Or you could be in a conservative bedroom community where nobody talks to each other. Research very carefully if you decide to go.

A good site with liveability scores for different parts of New Jersey www.areavibes.com/nj/