To refuse to move to USA with hubby

[CookieTramp]

I don't know what I'm really after here, but please offer your perspective.

We moved to where we are 2 years ago and I love it. Ds1 hs in reception class at school and it's a great school. I have a 4mo baby.

Husband's company wants him in NY and has upped offer to $150,000, and DH says we will be able to save £1000+ a month on that, whereas here we are not able to save. I don't work at the moment, except a little freelance from home.

The main reasons I can't agree are: 1. My mum. She is more my mainstay than DH, really. She has a fantastic bond with DS1 and will have with DS2. We need her and also it will break her heart. We have very little family and my dad died 7 years ago. 2. We will lose the school place and with the squeeze on places could easily get one out of area. 3. I do not know if we really will save what DH says and no clue how to work it out definitively. Relocation package is €5,000, which to me seems like it won't touch the sides what with flights to and fro and furnishing a 4-bed house out there from scratch.

Main issue I suppose is our relationship is not great and DH has never grasped the concept of emotional support. He takes his responsibilities seriously and gives lots of his time to the kids but I don't feel he is really there for me. I'm too scared to leave all my other supports and put myself in a position where he is all I have. We were in Relate last year and DS2 was conceived in fit of optimism thereafter.

So DH is desperate to go, as the job there is beyond his wildest dreams. I would hate to hold him back from that. One possibility is he goes for a year on his own (he needs at least the first two big projects) but how could I do that to DS1, even if I could do it to DH?!

It seems impossible whichever way I turn and we need to decide soon. Hubby keeps saying about financial gain (but is it really?!) and I will make new friends but the biggest loss is my mum and the school place. dH says would be for a couple of years.

Over to you. I am soooo stressed and distressed.

Maybe there are different rules for US citizens (although my youngest
is but none of the rest of us).

They've flown many times with one parent, and even by themselves, with no notarized letters and it hasn't been a problem.

The more I read the more I think no, no, no. I'm sorry but there is far too much at stake and you are too vulnerable.

I really think you should send him over to work there and return for proper breaks and you go out for the schools hols etc. Perfectly doable especially if you have your mum's support both practically and emotionally.

Wow, the brand-new information just keeps on coming. I am sooooo glad I started this thread. Some of the responses have been hard to read, but if I can't read them and face their contents and factor them into my decision, then it's not a very solid decision. Whatever that decision will be - still don't know.

Shakshuka his office is in central NY and he picked NJ because the rentals are cheaper, and we get a bigger space/garden for our money (important with the kids), and he takes the hit of the commute. He was definitely thinking of us there!

We did sort of have a look-see last summer, when DS1 and I flew out there for two weeks while DH was on a 9-week project. It wasn't much of a look-see, as I was pregnant and tired and it was 38-40 degrees and I couldn't handle it. I liked it, and found the people very friendly (Brooklyn, though, so probably different in the 'burbs?), but still didn't want to make all the sacrifices involved in moving there.

I think him going out initially on his own is a good idea, as we will see if the massive projects that are mooted will materialise and we will see how many of those he really needs to do to get the benefits to his career when he comes back. But I'm not really sure what it is I would need to gain from that in order to make a final decision - until I figure that out, there's no point in him going yet. This thread has really, really helped and I have a list of points to consider.

Based on the stuff I've found out here, I will definitely insist on a relocation expert (no way am I going to let it all rest on what I may or may not have managed to find out along the way) and a family lawyer. I need to be sure I won't lose my kids. I am 99.9% sure that DH would never do that to me, but I also know that acrimony to a level never before dreamt of can occur when a marriage breaks down. And if by going I open myself up to that tiny possibility, that needs to be sorted and nailed down beforehand. If that's even possible by signing some kind of agreement.

As to the spouse visa, I relaly didn't know about those restrictions. I knew I wouldn't be able to work (although they have said - not in writing yet - that they would get GC applications in soon after we arrive) but that's not really an issue with my youngest still so tiny.

I agree with expat and others that its unwise for the OP to up sticks and move to the states with little security or opportunity for herself. BUT I can also see wicked witches point. Surely the bottom line is that when you both want different things, you have to find a middle way. That's why not moving to the states right now, but taking seriously that he isn't content in his current work life and wants something different, is essential. It may be that a move somewhere else, or the OP taking on more earning responsibilities so that they can save, will provide that compromise.
I don't think it's reasonable to use the school place as a reason. The child is in reception- there are years ahead and if the OP is basically saying she's not prepared to move anywhere else simply because the children have to go to that school, then that's going to be incredibly restricting. If this was a child in the middle of GCSE that would be different- but a 4 year old- goodness children are so resilient and flexible at that age

I guess what I'm seeing here is a husband who wants to spread his wings, have a new experience, and a wife who's life had 'narrowed down' (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way, it just seems the best way to explain it. The op isn't working, and is now much more reliant on a smaller social group and her mother, and things like the local primary school). It's not really a case of either person being wrong, but I can see how the conflict has arisen.

In his mind, while your children are little it's a brilliant time to live a new experience for a while... It all gets so much harder when they're older and also when the OP is back at work and there are two careers to consider. I think the OP needs to answer honestly: will there ever be a right time? If she really doesn't think she's ever going to want to consider an adventure like this, then she owes it to her DH to be up front and say so.

whose

I think a big problem is I see the stars in DH's eyes, and his vision of how it would be, and firstly I don't want to trample on that, and secondly a little bit of me wants to buy into that. But I have to consider whether it is realistic or not, and it is really looking like not. I can't just indulge his vision anyway, and let him find out for himself, as the stakes are too high and my mother and the kids are involved. But I do feel the pull of it myself. He thinks HE will be different out there because the American people are so open (and to be fair, he did come out of himself more socially last year when we were there), but I also know from having lived abroad in three countries (USA, Japan and Holland) that you are exactly the same wherever you go, just different scenery. So it is a fallacy. I used to think that, and I only know that it is not so from my own experience. DH has never lived abroad and I hate to be the one to stamp on his opportunity. But I have to think of myself too.

Oh, and btw I have said 'Go by yourself. It's fine. I will cope', but he is understandably un-keen on that option. His best-case is for me to come too, and he's still pushing for that. To be fair, I probably would in his shoes too.

Janey, I think you are right. My world has undergone the 'narrowing' usually associated with SAHMs. And I really can't help that. Mine's shrinking fast as his is expanding, and there is bound to be a tension between the two. I'm also 7 years older than him, which I think comes into play. I am 'dunroamin' and he has got adventure in his eyes.

It is incredibly difficult, as it cannot be fair to both parties. Me going is harsh on me, him going alone is harsh on him, and him staying home altogether is ultra-harsh on him.

We were expats for years and my DH employed people as expats. His company would try to make sure that both the employee and their partner were to really on board with any move because the postings would often fail if the accompanying partner wasn't happy. I my experience one person leaving and one person staying at home rarely works well and I have known quite a few divorces where this has happened.

We had a fantastic time being expats but it was with a really supportive paternalistic company that knew the whole family had to be catered for. It's still hard and there were times when there was a lot of uncertanty over things. That can be particularly tricky with older kids and their education. I wouldn't have done it unless my marriage was strong. We also took the view that we were not doing it just for the money, the money was good but it wasn't ever the main objective of being expats.

Central ny is big! If he's in midtown east then you should definitely look at Westchester or Connecticut as there's a train line which goes into grand central. From NJ, trains go into Penn station on the west side or buses into the port authority, also on the west side. If he's downtown, NJ is also good because of path trains but Brooklyn could also be great.

He needs to go on his own for at least a while.

Spreading your wings and all this, that's what you do when you are single or don't have kids.

You are not on board with this, that's understandable, but being an expat myself, you have to really want this. And you are right, wherever you go, there you are.

Shakshuka, the office is at Spring Street.

I think it's more that you have to fully embrace it IF you make the decision to go. My dh was very hesitant and we had endless discussions, it was a hard decision to make. But once we decided to do it, he's been fully into it and making the most of it.

Him telling me to go by myself would have been the same as him vetoing it totally. We're a family, not a group of individuals.

Re the points made above about not being able to get credit, bank accounts etc, it really does depend on the type of spouse visa. DH has an H1B, DD and I are on H4s, so dependent visas. Consequently, I can't work, have more than a basic bank account and all admin (bills etc) have to be in DH's name. I could have got my own mobile contract, but was asked for a $2000(!) security deposit. So I have a mobile in DH's name... I am not entitled to a social security number and to get a driver's license, had to take a letter of denial from the social security office to the DMV saying that I wasn't entitled to a social security number. The fact I used to have a great career, credit history in the UK and have a property in London mean bugger all here (and it starts to grate, trust me).

If your DH were to get an L1 (intra company transfer), then you could get an L2 visa and hence an employment authorisation card. Your world would be much bigger than mine right now. I was on maternity leave when we moved here and have gone on to have another child. Maybe I wouldn't have worked in the UK for these three years either. But the opportunity would be nice. It's a huge part of why we won't be extending DH's contract (and this brings with it its own costs - was the move worth it for 3 years?). Hmm.. I am confident that if things went wrong, I'd still have a house in the UK to go back to and money in the UK. Do not make yourself completely financially dependent on your DH!

I already have an L2 visa - does that change anything?

Would I not be able to drive?

The company sorted them last year for me and DS1 when they sent us over. DH's visa is L1 I think.

Well, that's a lot more positive. L2 means you'll be able to work if you want to so that's great news if you do decide to go. Driving - even illegal immigrants can get a license so you'll always be able to get one. It's just easier if you have a social security number as there's much less paperwork and bureaucracy to deal with. Bear in mind that insurance will be costly as the US will not take into consideration any previous foreign no claims etc so you'll be starting from scratch. Our insurance actually costs more than the monthly lease payment on our car - and expect to pay $1000-$1500 for the first six months alone.

I relocated from one side of the Pennines to the other away from a toxic family in 1988.

It was horrific. Not the people, but the lack of support in getting out and meeting people. If I knew then what I knew now I would not have done it. My DH is not a social person and I am and it has crippled me. It wasn't the distance, it was the isolation and I was working (had to go straight home) and child free.

That was just across the Pennines. I don't think it's about the money, it's about the support and/or isolation. I am still damaged.

I would suggest that alongside the numbers you should get him to commit to what he would do to give you the sort of support that you need, that you currently get from your mother - and make him come up with some answers rather than agreeing to your suggestions. If you have to buy into his dreams, he has to buy into your fears.

Good luck.

I've not read the whole thread yet but 90k won't go far in NY. And the 1000 that he's planning to save each month you'll probably need for health care, or if he has health care with the job it'll pay for the excess.

I wouldn't leave my mum either especially not with a new baby and young family.

Can't understand all the fixation over finances at the expense of the relationship - (looks like a decent salary). Is there some avoidance going on?

And if the relate counsellor said your expectations were unreasonable OP that doesn't seem right to me ...

animation, it's because if the finances don't stack up then I don't have a problem. The only way I will consider it is if it gives us a leg-up with our mortgage or money to set aside for the children that we can't do here.

So if the finances don't stack up: problem solved. If they do, I have to start paddling in some very difficult and far more muddy waters.

Oh, and the Relate counsellor didn't say that. He said my expectations weren't unreasonable.

"I know what you mean, but in Relate last year it was pretty much concluded that it wasn't unreasonable expectations in me (I was never sure) and that he is just quite rubbish at that stuff."

Sorry this is what you said.

So does that mean there's work to be done - (both of you) but he can't do it so you feel you have to give up on that side of things.

Animation - if expectation 'wasn't unreasonable', it can be rephrased as 'was reasonable'