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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask those of you who are pro life?

999 replies

Anonynony · 21/04/2014 14:49

How do you feel about friends who have had abortions? Can you maintain friendships with people who have had an abortion and no regrets?

One of my friends has stunned me, talking about another friend of ours who had considered an abortion and my friend said I'm so glad she didn't because I wouldn't have been able to stay friends with her Shock
I'm really surprised, I'm extremely pro choice and vocal about it but this doesn't bother my friend.
But what my friend doesn't know is that I also had an abortion and although I have no regrets I feel a bit strange around my friend now?

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 23/04/2014 14:55

Sabrina, I don't mind being disagreed with. There's a difference between disagreeing with someone and bullying/posting personal insults. There are plenty of people here who disagree with me who I haven't accused of bullying behaviour.

two fingers - baby used the word 'enlightened'. See, any excuse to have a go.

elli, the title of the thread makes it clear what it is going to be about so people don't need to follow the thread if they will find it too disturbing.

"Yep strange how all of us pro choice are actually pretty kind and supportive of each other."

Do you think that makes you a good person? Because you can be nice to people who agree with you? Hardly a challenge. I have had people who disagree with my opinion call out others on their behaviour towards me on these threads. That says a lot more about a person's character imo.

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 14:55

What about the mental state of the woman?

You mentioned physical not mental state?

To sassy

Also if you support abortion laws to curtail other women's choices then you do seek to control another woman's body?

Binkyresurrected · 23/04/2014 14:56

What about her mental health sassy? or is that not important or should she just get a grip.

gordyslovesheep · 23/04/2014 14:57

I wasn't picking up on her point Bumbly - it was your point about people (plural) desperate to adopt BABIES being denied the chance

You keep advocating adoption as the solution to unwanted pregnancy

I guess what you are saying is you based your entire belief in people wrongly being refused adoption on HER post and not any any other case or experience - real or imagined - hence why you can't clarify the point you made

You are a law unto yourself

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 14:57

Er yes bumbly I think I am kind thanks.

Now you enlighten baby quoting you just like you quote other posters.

That's not having a go!!! It's what we all have done.

Dawndonnaagain · 23/04/2014 14:58

In summary of the care provided there was a general lack of provision of basic, fundamental care, for example, not following up on blood tests as identified in the case of Savita Halappanavar
failure to recognise that Savita Halappanavar was at risk of clinical deterioration
failure to act or escalate concerns to an appropriately qualified clinician when Savita Halappanavar was showing the signs of clinical deterioration.
The consultant, non-consultant hospital doctors (NCHDs) and midwifery/nursing staff were responsible and accountable for ensuring that Savita Halappanavar received the right care at the right time. However, this did not happen.
From the report.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 23/04/2014 14:58

Who decides what level of serious and permanent damage a woman must be under threat from before she is allowed to have an abortion? You? One doctor? Two doctors? A court?

I think Bumbley thinks she should decide. And the answer's 'no'. No termination, no matter what. Even in Savita's case - she couldn't be clearer.

bumbleymummy · 23/04/2014 15:00

sassy, it's their approach. They frequently resort to name calling and personal insults on these threads.

the body - I did not use the word 'enlighten' on the other thread. I used it in direct response to Baby on this thread because that was the word she chose. You can see for yourself if you look upthread. I doubt you'll apologise for the false accusation, will you at least admit your mistake?

Maid, I believe it is currently 2 doctors.

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 15:01

X post binky

bumbly are you the only one allowed to quote back posts then?

enlighten baby she has asked you too.

Your beliefs are valid. Why not share clearly and honestly.

Do you think Baby should have been offered a termination?

MaidOfStars · 23/04/2014 15:01

Sabrina It was Sassysally's comment int he first place, but would be happy to accept thoughts from Bumbley also.

Dawndonnaagain · 23/04/2014 15:01

You have not been bullied by anybody Bumbley You can say it as often as you like, we know that you need it to fit your agenda, but to keep repeating it doesn't make it real.
I find it interesting that we can all 'bully' you and you keep going on about it, but not one of us has picked you up on your delightful little passive aggressive posts, complete with smileys. :)
I wonder if that is lack of need.

MaidOfStars · 23/04/2014 15:04

Maid, I believe it is currently 2 doctors.

And do you agree with the premise that women should be allowed to choose abortion if they are at risk of serious and permanent damage to their physical health, as certified by two doctors?

Here's a clue: the answer is either "yes" or "no". At least as your first word.

What are the types of serious and permanent damage usually included in the criteria?

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 15:04

bumbly I was referring to your bullying comment in the other thread.

Yes well aware you wanted to enlighten baby on this one please do.

bumbleymummy · 23/04/2014 15:04

"I guess what you are saying is you based your entire belief in people wrongly being refused adoption on HER post and not any any other case or experience - real or imagined - hence why you can't clarify the point you made"

No, I explicitly said earlier that I did not. You questioned the fact that he was not allowed to adopt because of his vasectomy. You said there must be another reason and that I was therefore questioning the judgement of SS. If their entire decision was based on that (Which apparently it was) then yes, I disagree with their decision on that. If you go back and read over the posts again you should be able to follow it.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 23/04/2014 15:04

Maid, I believe it is currently 2 doctors.

But bumbley - you think it's you who should decide. That much is clear. You think you have the right to deny other women their bodily autonomy.

Sincerely hope this thread is full and consigned to history by the time I'm back from the school run/play date.

Best wishes to all those who have shared their very sad stories on this thread. Thanks

Binkyresurrected · 23/04/2014 15:05

From my experience, 2 doctors signatures are needed but only 1 doctor actually sees you, the other one just gets the paperwork and signs it. (Private abortion clinic)

LtEveDallas · 23/04/2014 15:06

Yes, because her life was at risk at that stage

No. Because the foetus had died at that stage. They wouldn't give it before because it still had a heartbeat (albeit a very slow one).

What you believe is NOT TRUE.

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 15:06

sassy it's their approach?

What is? To ask someone's opinion?

This is a debate forum. Well some debate and some avoid like you do bumbly

elliolli2 · 23/04/2014 15:06

sassy calm down I wasn't suggesting anyone on this thread was calling anyone else an uncaring slut - merely making the point that people who have terminations can be branded with a brush of being irresponsible when the truth is far from it in so, so many cases.

People are of course entitled to their opinion. However when they try to ram their opinions down other peoples necks deeming their opinions to be right that is unfair, unkind, unsupportive and damn wrong! This thread has somehow attracted a few people who seem to fall into that category. A belief stems from a persons walk of life, their religion, their background, upbringing and possibly their hardships. No one person is the same, therefore it is unlikely that many view points are identical.

javotte · 23/04/2014 15:06

I hope for the sake of consistency that the people who believe abortion should be allowed until term because "it's not a baby if it's not out" tell women who have had late miscarriages that they did not lose a baby, but a foetus.
Because if you consider that it is being wanted by your mother that makes you a human being instead of a bunch of cells, I find it really frightening.

sassysally · 23/04/2014 15:07

'Who decides what level of serious and permanent damage a woman must be under threat from before she is allowed to have an abortion? You? One doctor? Two doctors? A court?'

A court

bumbleymummy · 23/04/2014 15:08

the body, BabyFaced's orginal post. It was even addressed to you so I don't know why you didn't pick up on the fact that she used it:

"thebody I'm fine, really. I'm disappointed that Bumbley didn't take the opportunity to enlighten us, all of us, on what her reasoning is based on but hey ho."

Again, I did not use the word enlighten on the other thread. You can search if you like. I know you won't apologise, will you admit that you're wrong?

Binkyresurrected · 23/04/2014 15:09

OMG Sassy you get funnier with every post. You don't want abortions and late term ones are the work of the devil, but you want a COURT, which will create an even longer delay to access to abortions to decide if a woman can terminate and hence will cause a rise in late term abortions.

BTW the Real world isn't missing you

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 23/04/2014 15:10

But the thing about being pro-choice is that it is possible to be kind to everyone, because we aren't seeking to limit your choices or options, at all. IF you don't want an abortion, no pro-choicer is going to put placards outside your Dr's surgery telling you what an awful mother you'd make, or throw eggs at you while you try and go to your midwife appointments. I'm pro-woman and pro-women making their own choices about their fertility, pregnancy, contraception, abortions and adoptions. So it's actually pretty easy to be kind.

I'm not kind when talking about people who actively seek to limit women's bodily autonomy, because I view it as an assault on my rights and my freedoms.

gordyslovesheep · 23/04/2014 15:12

But Bumbly you gave that as an example - I hadn't seen Differences post - you know nothing of that case - how can you use it to argue that the whole adoption service needs overhauling Grin

You responded to my question giving the example of a man who had a vasectomy - you did not say it was someone elses story - you presented it as one which YOU had knowledge of

so again I am asking what YOU think, based on YOUR knowledge and experience, is wrong , what needs to change and how you would do that?

or do you think, based on reading one post by difference, you have more information than experienced adoption social workers? seriously - maybe you could stop posting here and go and tell them how to do their jobs properly

you also seem to see nothing wrong in people who reject disabled or older children being allowed to adopt the perfect babies of women forced to birth - seriously??

I know people adopted in the in the 1960's and 70's by 'good families' who suffered awful abuse