Deciding to try for a baby whilst at Medical school… am I mental?

[NurseDoctor]

Hi everyone. I've seen a couple of similar posts but nothing very recent. First post here as i'm not actually qualified to be a "mums netter" yet (as not yet a mum!). I am a mature student studying medicine and living with my husband. We have been married for almost 4 years and have recently had a sit down/serious think about when will actually be an optimal time to have children. I am just finishing my first year and will have 4 months off for summer to work and build up our currently sad savings account. Due to the length of the course (5 years) and the 2 years of foundation training following this, followed by specialty selection and training, I can't see any "sensible" time for pregnancy and babies at all. In fact I can see it being put off until very late in life indeed. Unfortunately for me this isn't really a risk I want to take, as I have endometriosis, and, as my GP has kindly pointed out a number of times, the longer I delay the less chance i'll have of a natural conception. So here we are, one year into the course, seriously considering trying for a baby. Our thoughts at present are to possibly try between Sept-Dec this year for a Summer baby (during my holiday) but very aware that the chances of being lucky enough to achieve this are slim.
My question really is, are there any other mums out there who have had babies at university? Did you cope ok with the course? I am also very aware that, as the only married person on my course I will probably be of great interest to fellow students if I were pregnant, how did that make you feel? Sorry for the long post. Fortunately my husband is self employed and works from home, he is incredibly supportive. Pros with waiting seem to be mostly money and cons are time with the baby, chances of conception dwindling which would cause even greater stress.

Saying that back in the day I had a male reg (on respiratory) who was LTFT as he had kiddies. It's such a sign of the times that I was astonished men actually did LTFT. Have you guys ever come across a part time male doc?

I agree no cheese. At our careers event we were told that anyone, male or female, could do ltft if they had significant caring responsibilities, but I do wonder how many men take it up?

Of course we had someone there telling about how they were doing it, who was of course a woman! (Who incidentally had 2 children at medical school nurse)

I just can't see how it makes life any easier as you are still working rotaed shifts with no set pattern so childcare will still be tricky, and you earn less money!

It is really nice talking to other people with similar issues - I always felt quite on my own. I am the only student in my cohort who is on their 30s and had a baby!

I don't think I have. Though saying that most male docs I meet are either junior years and still playing the field or consultants with wives at home with the kids. There must be people in between but I never seem to meet them!

Late to this thread but another Go For It! I had DS as a reg, and actually switch specialties after ST2 before starting a family. It was because I wanted to, but not having to do shift work in my new specialty was definitely a factor. DH is very hands on and completely pulls his own weight, but works shifts. Having to coordinate childcare around two shift workers with the NHS penchant of releasing rotas on changeover day would have been a nightmare. We moved for jobs and have no family to rely on for emergency childcare.

There is no good time and you just make things work around your child and your career. I am LTFT and actually spend a lot of my own time catching up with work and training (even more so than when I was full time) but it's worth it for the extra time at home with DS.

I've just learnt to be very focused and efficient when at work and at home, so I actually get a lot more done nowadays compared to pre-child. As a med student as someone above said, you are supernumerary so patient care doesn't suffer if you have to leave early. And timetabled activities rarely last past 5 pm, staying past five in my experience was either voluntary or if I was stuck holding a retractor in theatre. If you have childcare costs sorted and your DH is prepared to be primary contact, definitely go for it!

Bertiesgal totally agree, there should be choice. I guess there is always the issue that going part time inevitably lengthens the training process. I'd imagine the mor competitive you are the harder this is. Also I guess as it isn't seen to be the "norm" some men may struggle with this. Luckily I can picture my husband strutting down the street with the pram and changing bag owning it!

FWIW I do know LTFT male doctors. DH would love to be LTFT if he could but his training would be less than ideal if he did that (he would miss out on specific lists and clinics). This feedback came from the female docs in his specialty. So not an excuse he made up.

Re competitiveness, I've generated as much presentations and research since I've been LTFT as my full time counterparts, and passed the same number of exams. It can be done, but you still have to 'serve the time'.

I know someone who had a a baby at medical school, had to defer a year but it worked out. The only thing is I don't think you can do a medical course part time but you can work part time plus when working you will be earning.

I actually think it is easier to have kids earlier now than in my day(hark at me I am 36!) once you get into your run through training after your FY2 job you are in a secure job and probably won't have any problems going part time. Lots of ST1 s are starting their family whereas before women felt forced to wait unit they had at least a reg number which you got much later.

Did I read up thread that you are a nurse? Are you working at all whilst training- because studying full time, a baby and pulling shifts probably isn't feasible.

Now is doable but so is ST1.

I think it is true of most careers ( I'm a dental specialist ) that the best time to have babies is either very early or very late
I did the latter and it worked out fine but it sounds like the former would be better for you with your MH
And I agree the most vital factor is a supportive partner, you both have to agree that your career will take priority over his when push comes to shove, for the next few years at least

Pah, supportive partner optional. Nice, but optional.

I dropped out of uni when I had my girls, I was doing teacher training. I couldn't think of anything but being pregnant. Back at uni now, 6 years later, not doing teacher training as I wouldn't be able to do commit the hours with you g children to run around after I know we are supposed to believe we can have it all, and I'm not saying you won't. But if you choose studies now you may be giving up on having your own baby, if you choose baby now, you may well be giving up on a medical career. You have to decide which one is worth risking

I dropped out of uni when I had my girls, I was doing teacher training. I couldn't think of anything but being pregnant. Back at uni now, 6 years later, not doing teacher training as I wouldn't be able to do commit the hours with you g children to run around after I know we are supposed to believe we can have it all, and I'm not saying you won't. But if you choose studies now you may be giving up on having your own baby, if you choose baby now, you may well be giving up on a medical career. You have to decide which one is worth risking

Anyone can apply to work flexibly - not just women. I know of a couple of men who are doing so. I think we are quite lucky in medicine in that it is relatively straightforward. Out of my antenatal group, I was the one who had the least difficulty in sorting out their return to work.

Out of interest, when I worked in the medical school (mid 00s) we had overwhelming numbers of women, 9 out of 10 students were women. Our assumption was because young women are more mature, focused and driven earlier than young men and come across better at interview - although this was just an assumption, I have no idea if it was right or not. We were actually asked by the government (informally of course!) to recruit more young men as they were worried about the implications of large numbers of women in medicine for maternity cover and cover for doctors who chose to switch to P/T.

I was about to post the same as bunny that there is no 'you must have a vagina' condition to go LTFT. But realistically only women can have babies and it tends to be the case that they are the ones wanting to go part time. This is not sexist it is the way things are. I've only ever found my colleagues and deanery to be supportive but I do think I have been lucky because I know of other trainees around the country who have had a much harder time. And far from getting negative comments about being part time I've had make consultant colleagues telling me how much they admire what I'm doing.

I'm LTFT as I've already said and it works perfectly for me. Full time works perfectly for others and I know plenty of women juggling fulltime medical careers with kids. As a previous poster said whatever works for you is fine.

I'd caution people against thinking child care is easier when your kids are school age though. It's not!

I did work with a Dr who had a little girl who was born when she (Dr) was 17.

She said she was taken aside by on og supervisors and told that if she kept having to run of to nursery then she would never have a career.

Basically her parents stepped in and although the Dr went to live with them, her parents (child's grandparents) basically brought up the baby for 3 years.

The preclinical years are the easiest for a medical student.

So if you got pregnant now you would be leaving a small baby for the start of your clinical years and you will have to be a hands off parent.

You know yourself better than anyone one here. Could you leave your baby to someone else (even dh) and not see him/her/they for 2 days except to poke you head around a door and see them sleeping?

The Dr I mentioned at the start - well if you can have a baby one year, pass A Levels with top grades the next and go to medical school then anyone else can but you will be making sacrifices.

So will your dh.

But then if you put this off you may not be a mother.

And then there is you not knowing how your pregnancy will progress. Does having Endo increase the likelihood of having a difficult pregnancy?

A couple of points from me - you mention children rather than child, if so are you hoping to have two close together or a larger gap? I know this is all theoretical but worth thinking about.

Secondly, depending on our chosen specialty it doesn't necessarily follow that your foundation years will be the toughest. DH is an Ortho consultant and I can hand on heart say the toughest time for us was his FRCS exams. They were the bleakest most awful couple of years, with I think, 5 of his colleague's marriages breaking down because of the stress. Hopefully by the time you get there, they'll have changed the system, but it is worth thinking about.

Just wanted to say that I have been through the clinical years of med school with dd being a baby/toddler, and I still get to see plenty of her. It is very rare that I get home later than when she goes to bed, and I had an hour's commute for the last 2 years. I am at a more local hospital for 5th year.

Basically how it has worked for us is I get her ready and take her to preschool, dp finishes work quite early and used to pick her up from cm about 2.30, now picks her up from pre-school at 3.30 Monday to Wednesday. Thursday she is with one of our mums and dp has day off on Friday. Saturday we spend as a family, and Sunday dp has to work, so it has kind of turned into mine and dad's special day together, we usually bake something, but today I am painting her nails as a treat because it's the holidays and she has been nagging me after seeing me paint mine the other day!

Most days I am off the Ward by four, often earlier. Wednesday afternoons we get off for "sports" (and I think this is pretty standard across most unis) so that is more time spent with her. Then of course there are weekends and bank holidays, and whilst medical student holidays are less generous than other Uni holidays, you still usually get a long summer and 2 weeks off at Xmas and Easter. This is a luxury you won't get as an f1/f2. The financial impact of childcare will be lessened as a student as you get a grant for 85%.

Our evenings usually consist of me cooking while dp gives her a bath, and we still manage to eat together most nights. Dd is a very happy independent child, and we share a lovely bond but she has also always enjoyed being with cm, pre-school, grandparents and dp. She never misses me!

What medical school are you at? (Pm me if you like) chances are you may be at one if the medical schools I've been to, so I might be able to give you more specific info.

In other words, I don't consider myself a "hands off" parent at all.

At my medical school at least one student has taken a year out twice during medical school to have two children, so that is always a possibility. In fact I was even told at my interview when transferring that if i needed to take another year out for a second child I would be supported in doing so.

I think times are changing and you will hopefully find attitudes quite supportive. I think that unis want to hold on to good students, so will do all they can to accommodate your needs.

And in answer to sash's question (then I'll shut up) I don't think Endo increases you chances of comic actions once you are pregnant, it is more just a problem with conceiving.

Pregnancy actually damps down endometriosis so gp will improve it.

I did have a cs because dd was breech, and I do happen to have a retroverted uterus, but I don't think this was to do with the Endo as I didn't have many scars/adhesions.

Complications not comic actions! That has to be the most random autocorrect yet!

Pregnancy will improve it not gp! (I give up)

I had a baby at the end of my 4th year which worked very well for me- I did have to sit exams while pregnant but then had a year off while others intercalated and so I ended up in the same year as a lot of friends afterwards.
It was absolutely the right time for me- I also have endo and I am really struggling to get pregnant now trying for a second.
For me, everything that could go wrong went wrong- I had an awful pregnancy, my husband was an unsupportive nightmare from the point the line appeared on the stick and I left him when our daughter was 1, I then got depression and ptsd from him being an abusive twat. It has been a long hard slog. But I graduate this summer with honours.
Hopefully things won't turn out like that for you, but even if they do it is possible to get through it. I still think medical school is a great time to have a baby, as long as you think it through and ask for support if you need it.
Different medical schools vary wildly in the amount of work and hours you are expected to put in. Which one are you at? Feel free to pm me just in case we're at the same one.

Just to

ImSoOverIt this is what I've been told. That pregnancy actually slows down the progression. I'd imagine there would only be complications if scarring is torn or such like, which I think is pretty rare and no more likely than other pregnancy complications

Sashh at my medical school third year is only clinical at the end. The beginning is my research year. This is why next summer would be pretty ideal as I would get four months off for summer then the next 8 months is self directed research. However even the students I know in clinical years seem to fit plenty of drinking, weekends away and sports competitions in.