Deciding to try for a baby whilst at Medical school… am I mental?

[NurseDoctor]

Hi everyone. I've seen a couple of similar posts but nothing very recent. First post here as i'm not actually qualified to be a "mums netter" yet (as not yet a mum!). I am a mature student studying medicine and living with my husband. We have been married for almost 4 years and have recently had a sit down/serious think about when will actually be an optimal time to have children. I am just finishing my first year and will have 4 months off for summer to work and build up our currently sad savings account. Due to the length of the course (5 years) and the 2 years of foundation training following this, followed by specialty selection and training, I can't see any "sensible" time for pregnancy and babies at all. In fact I can see it being put off until very late in life indeed. Unfortunately for me this isn't really a risk I want to take, as I have endometriosis, and, as my GP has kindly pointed out a number of times, the longer I delay the less chance i'll have of a natural conception. So here we are, one year into the course, seriously considering trying for a baby. Our thoughts at present are to possibly try between Sept-Dec this year for a Summer baby (during my holiday) but very aware that the chances of being lucky enough to achieve this are slim.
My question really is, are there any other mums out there who have had babies at university? Did you cope ok with the course? I am also very aware that, as the only married person on my course I will probably be of great interest to fellow students if I were pregnant, how did that make you feel? Sorry for the long post. Fortunately my husband is self employed and works from home, he is incredibly supportive. Pros with waiting seem to be mostly money and cons are time with the baby, chances of conception dwindling which would cause even greater stress.

It's always been me that has taken time off on the rare occasions dd has been sick, Mostly because dp is the one who's job actually pays the bills at the moment, and he is actually needed at work. Nobody has ever really noticed nor cared if I've had to leave the Ward early when on placement. In fact my attendance is still better than most if the other students! Probably another reason why having a baby at medical school is better, it is fairly easy to take time off, you are not being paid to be there and your presence is not essential, and your absence won't affect patient care.

When I start F1 I will be far harder for me to take time off at short notice, so dp will have to start responding to ^the call^ I think!

I'm a single parent, so I always respond to 'the call'. If it's a choice between ward and your child, there is always someone to cover the ward.

Don't do that doctor thing of thinking you're indispensable, no one is. The only place you're indispensable is when your child needs you. (I mean really needs you, and no one else will do.)

I think it depends in what speciality you want to go into. Im a GP, it is easier for GP trainees to manage to have babies and train.

I just remember F1/2 and also ST1-2 the horrible hours, night shifts, unpredictable rotas where you're only given them a week before starting a job and the exhaustion was awful and that was before I had my DD!

My plan (and thank God it worked out) was to have a baby at the end of my ST2 year, take a year off, go back and do ST3 full time (including my exams). It was beyond tiring but I managed it.

I know a few people who had babies during F2 or their early ST years (even if you do GP you would still be doing hospital rotations with night shifts etc in ST1/2) and they were so tired but managed it, everyone has. I don't know anyone who had had a baby and quit medicine/became bad at her job. However if you don't have much help/can't afford a nanny it can be a real challenge. We don't have help with DD and can't afford a nanny so use nursery care and even now it's a bloody nightmare with the shifts I work (GP lifestyle ain't 9-5).

I knew a few mature students (and I mean in their late 30s) who had babies and they also managed but financially it was tough.

I reckon in your circumstances, go for it. If you have your baby earlier on in your medical degree by the time you qualify they will be school ageish and it will be easier to cope with doing night shifts etc.

Good luck.

I would disagree with the idea that GP=good for families, acute specialties= bad. I think these myths are unhelpful. GP can involve long days, where you wouldn't see the child at all, where as shifts may allow more time at home in their waking hours. I think this myth allows misogynists/HR to continue to make life hard for females in acute specialities, for wanting rotas in advance etc, by pushing towards GP.

TBH, I doubt it's a 'bloody nightmare', I'm sure it's as manageable as for most professional parents. People have jobs, people have babies. There are options to sort it out. Being a displaced person in Syria is a 'bloody nightmare', not sorting out childcare for a well, developmentally normal child.

No I very much doubt I'll be indispensable (I'll probably be more of a liability to begin with to be honest!) I just mean it might be tricky to just leave sometimes, especially if there are things that need doing on the ward. And on the occasions I have had to leave I have made no apologies for it.

I just mean that when I have a bit more responsibility there may be occasions on balance where it is easier for dp to leave work than me. He has done as much if the childcare than me, so could offer as much comfort to dd is I could if she was ill etc. But if I was genuinely needed of course I would have no guilt in going.

I have also found as a student, may be different as a doctor, no one has ever judged or objected when I have had to take emergency time off for childcare issues.

Professional job,ft work,family is achievable.just don't put self under pressure to have it all
Work and family.This is what working people do every day.you just get on with it
IMO,be realistic,accept something gives and don't compare yourself to other people.

Nocheese - tell me about it. I hate the whole "women shouldn't be surgeons because they have kids" bollocks. Had quite a heated debate with a male student on this topic.

You sound sensible!

People may well judge you for taking time off for childcare issues once you're a doctor. If you need time off, you have to not let that get to you. (But also, not take the piss! ) There may be resentment, but you need to keep in mind that resentment is, at root, of 'the system'/HR, not actually you, who is being entirely reasonable. The time when your kids are young is a tiny part of your entire career. If you can defer to DH, then it'll probably help you keep on everyone's good side!

And if course according to the daily mail, increasing numbers if women doctors are solely responsible for the NHS financial difficulties...

I was in a similar position to you I was completing my masters when I decided to try for a baby.

I thought the sensible option was to wait until my mum told me if You wait for the 'right' time to have a baby you'll never have one. I took her advice

I was pregnant before the course finished I had to take 1 year maternity leave to pick up all my modules a year later. But Loved having a full year off tbh, though it was hard getting into the studying frame of mind again I managed it and now have my masters. (not that You can tell with the state of my spelling and grammar on mnet )

I was also on a masters where I had to work / study

Exactly. If only the NHS had more dicks in it, we'll be hunky-dory.

One of my closest friends did exactly this - she sat her second set of exams 9 weeks after she gave birth to her first.

She graduated with honours and is now a general surgeon. It can be done!!

In all honesty I find it shocking so many people still have this stereotype that women should only pick certain specialities if wanting children. It's hard because I know it's best to find the right fit for your lifestyle, but I've met male consultants with 4...5 even 6 kids and no one ever says well when do you see your children? I guess I'm fortunate that my DH sees us as equals, if anything he's pretty enthusiastic for my career to take the lead. We shall see! ImSoOverIt this is kind of how I was thinking about it. So long as I'm a student patients care/treatment won't be compromised if I have to miss the occasional day, whereas when I'm employed the buck stops with me

Nocheeseinthehouse I do find childcare a bloody nightmare. It is the bane of my life. Comparing that to the Syria situation is rather ridiculous. Perhaps you find that phrase overdramatic so I shall rephrase, I have found the childcare aspect a real struggle.

And I shall rephrase. If you are a doctor like me, who has absolutely no help at all and a partner who works shifts, nights and weekends and also cannot answer 'the call' then GP is easier for those mothers. As I said I'm a GP, I'm aware of what my job involves thanks. We don't have changeable rotas given with minimal notice, we don't do nightshifts and we have weekends off (at the moment) However we still do very long days and do on calls once a week but I can plan for that as my rota won't change. If I was in an hospital speciality I can tell you now there would be no way I would have coped with it as a mother. Maybe it was the hospital I worked at or things have changed since I was last in hospital but IMO GP is an easier option to have babies in. If it wasn't then I don't know why lots if my colleagues who have kids have reapplied to GP.

I wish it wasn't the case and perhaps it is no longer the case and things have changed since my last hospital based job in 2009.

I always do try not to take the piss, I have actually gained a reputation for having good attendance at medical school - as I mentioned earlier lots of the other students have the odd morning off for hangovers etc but I always try to turn up to everything and be on time, so that if I do then need time off for a genuine reason, people don't think you're taking the piss.

Dd's got the constitution of an ox though and is rarely sick (touch wood) so hopefully all will be good once I start work!

Before recently I never considered a baby during uni an option, but when you sit down and take a hard look at the career path there are very few opportunities...

Can I just say I dont 'have the stereotype' or whatever. I don't like that it is easier to have babies as GP. But it is and that is the way it is. I don't know how it can change or as I say it has changed since I was in hospital but according to my hospital friends who are mums, it doesn't seem to be the case. Perhaps I'm in a really backwards deanery?

Exactly,it's that assumption the female will go on mummy track.its not expected of men
Chose specialism by your ability,interest and desire to do it.let's face you'll be working 30+ odd years
Best wishes with your studies

Oh and I am NOT a misogynist.

There are also many medical couples at my hospital where the husband is a consultant and the wife is a part-time staff grade because she had kids. I know it is their business what they do, but it still makes me cross. It always seems to be the default for a woman's career to take a back seat, but yet a man can still have a family and a career, and no one judges him if he works long hours.

Sorry flossietta definitely wasn't aimed at you. I see nothing wrong with being a GP, especially if it suits your lifestyle. One cardiology consultant I've met with 2 children said her key to success was a super supportive OH, willing to put his career on the back burner. She had her first as a reg but did do medicine at 18. I think deaneries definitely seem to vary, as do work colleagues who can themselves seem to totally change the atmosphere medic mothers have to be part of. I guess I just feel there should be opportunity for female medics to enter any speciality regardless of children

I don't think it's true, flossietta. Perhaps proved by the fact you find childcare such a struggle?

Life, in general, is not easy. It's not fair, and it's not easy. But if you're finding something a 'bloody nightmare', then perhaps GP isn't 'the easiest'?

Some deaneries are certainly better than others, and I can name one which is absolutely shite, and peddles the 'GP is the only way to have a family' crap at every level. I wonder if you're there?

Oh, sorry, flossietta, I wasn't calling you a misogynist, just that I think the GP-myth is peddled by a misogynistic NHS/society. Then they beat us as being the cause of the breakdown of the NHS.

On my first day back at medical school after having dd, the surgeon I was in theatre with was asking me lots of questions about my background so inevitably I told him I had moved from a different medical school after having my daughter etc. one of the registrars overheard and said I should be at home looking after my daughter, like his wife who was a "good mother".

Wanker

I think GPs are an important, vital part of medicine. I also know half of medical students now (actually slightly more than half) are female. Yet far more men are consultants than woman, either the women are giving up or being pushed out. There is no way that proportion of women have no other medical speciality they want to pursue.

My other issue is, due to knowing absolutely no one who has had a baby on my course I really have no idea how supportive my university would be...