to vote UKIP?

[runnerBeanee]

Over time I have warmed to UKIP. I see the other parties as self serving bullshitters. Recently I looked at schools for dd, every local school is bursting at the seams, bulge years etc and it's likely I won't get a school of choice. I've been told be teachers and other parents that a high percentage of the children at said schools do not speak English, so rather than teaching maths, the teachers spend more time just trying to teach English to non English speakers.

I live in an average area, I've been told be friends in other areas that it's the same there. There's not enough housing, schools and NHS resources to cope with the levels of immigration. So which stupid power hungry politicians decided it was a good idea to allow all this immigration when there wasn't the infrastructure to cope with it or the funds to pay for more schools etc?

I'm not from a 'British' family myself and have plenty of non British friends, it's not about racism, it's common sense, you can't have an uncontrolled surge in population and expect public services to cope unless you're happy to pay for it. Though I'm sure the govt arehappy that this has caused wages to be driven down...

Aibu?

Hating all immigrants would be xenophobic not racist. Immigrants are not necessarily from a different race than the majority race of a country.

Actually a lot of the problems are down to poor planning rather than immigration. If you look over the last 20 years and changes in birth rates and patterns (which are not just due to immigration, but also down to those women who delayed pregnancy for their careers) then you can see whats going to happen in 5 or 10 years time. Yet few local authorities anywhere - regardless of whether they are areas of high immigration or not - did anything to plan for it in schools or indeed hospitals.

But its much easier to pin the blame on the visible rather than look at what measures could have been done to avoid many issues we have now.

However this is a general problem with UK politics; parties only are concerned about their current electoral term and short term policies rather than long term solutions (pensions are the prime example where problems were identified decades ago and just kicked down the road 50 yards for their successor to deal with).

You can 'tackle' immigration, but actually it won't solve the problem, because the problem is poor planning and management not immigration.

We should be asking for real solutions not just voting for someone in protest because there 'is no alternative'. There IS an alternative but it doesn't lie in parties, it lies in identifying whats really going wrong and forcing ALL the parties to acknowledge what they are.

I prefer to call them bigots. It covers more bases.

Omg Grinch must be someone soooo important. Yeah right, you're doing the same as everyone else on this thread - talking anonymously on an internet forum. Well done.

PFI is another great example of terrible long term planning and why services are so stretched. I note that this is still supported by the current government despite the fact its clear the scale of the problems it has caused and continues to cause. Trouble is PFI makes the books balance better in the short term.

No tiggy I just judge jumped up hypocritical ex city stockbrokers who claim to be 'of the people's army'. I will ask again. How is Dear Old Nige with NO MPs planning to govern the country. Is it in their Manifesto and if he hates the EU that much I'll assume hes giving up his £79,000 a year MEP post up imminently.

The biggest criticism I have of the main parties is their failure to properly acknowledge their own mistakes of the past and address them in a positive way, and instead seek to blame the others.

Politics in the UK is essentially a giant game of 'Pin the Blame on the Donkey' rather than doing the right and grown up thing of 'Taking Responsibility'.

Ultimately thats what I think the public wants.

Misspixietrix Thu 03-Apr-14 17:27:28
Ok. Farage Fans. Please list UKIPs Policies. All of them. .

Fancy telling us what the Labour policies are? Just had a look on their website and the only one I could find is that they are:-

''committed to increasing the representation of women and under-
represented groups in Parliament and at every level of politics. ''

I couldn't find a single other policy on their website. And they're meant to be a credible alternative to the conlib?

I think the trouble is that by the time you get to the point where you see UKIP as the alternative, you've already lost the ability to engage with those people as they have already come to the conclusion that the other parties are just liars and nothing they say is true and they are completely self serving.

Why?

Well because quite frankly, they are!

I think that the UKIP voter who is at that stage does take the attitude simply that "anything is better" and don't want to look or consider anymore than that because it then means that they have no alternative at all that they can see. They've already become narrow minded in what they will listen to because they are so sick of the other crap.

People as a rule do not WANT to question things themselves sadly. They want simple solutions and they want to be led rather than think for themselves.

Turning to blame the outsider is something that happens in times of hardship as a result. It doesn't matter whether you call them a racist or not. It and be a bit blunt about it, often those kind of complex arguments are beyond a lot of people and they aren't able to engage with those debates as a result unfortunately. People WANT politics to be simplistic and they just aren't.

Nicky I'm not interested in Labour. I'm interested in what UKIPs are. You didn't answer my question. Try again.

tiggy if the Tories adopted UKIP stance on things. Such legislation as the equal marriage bill would never have happened.

Nicky has a point though.

Why criticise UKIP when the 'credible' Labour party are guilty of the same thing.

The lack of clear policies mean there isn't a debate about policies. It boils down to personalities and party colours/loyalties rather than discussing the issues that matter.

Because I'm not interested in what Labour are doing. I'm interested in what UKIP are doing, I want to know what UKIPs Policies are and how he plans to govern a country and be a big influential party. So far you're not convincing me.

If you are fundamentally opposed to a party's policies then there is nothing that will convince you otherwise.

We shouldn't be given the choice of not turning out. Every one should have to vote even if they spoil their ballot paper. If you don't vote you shouldn't moan about what you get.

Indeed they do tiggy.

I live in a rare constituency where at the last election all three main parties had a real chance of winning so had a real choice of vote. Thats not the case for most people. The result is that at Generals, people vote to 'prevent' X getting in, far more. This was the very tactic used by the Lib Dems to gain votes. Their campaign strategy was to say "we are the only real alternative to Labour" (in areas which there was little Tory support) and to say "we are the only real alternative to the Conservatives" (in areas where there was little Labour support). It was more about 'Keeping Out' either Labour or the Tories, rather than a positive vote for the Lib Dems. A high percentage of their vote was a 'protest' vote in this sense.

Next time it will be different in that the Lib Dems are extinct as a political force. So where do those votes go. They won't automatically go to UKIP. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that someone who voted Lib Dem previously is more likely than Labour or Tory voters to be scared shitless of the prospect of UKIP. My bet is that it will come down to the 'lesser evil' principle. There could be a few unpredicted consequences as a result with people voting for either Labour or the Conservatives despite their hatred for them. Voters still tend to stick with known quantities rather than loose canons.

I also suspect there will be a lot more independent candidates who stand on single issues and pick up a lot of votes. I hope this is the case, as I think this is a more effective way of voting if you want to make a protest as you are directly telling someone you see this issue as being important and not being taken seriously by any of the main candidates. Of course, in order to stand, now is the time that independents need to start thinking about doing it....

Misspixietrix Thu 03-Apr-14 19:47:40
Because I'm not interested in what Labour are doing. I'm interested in what UKIP are doing, I want to know what UKIPs Policies are and how he plans to govern a country and be a big influential party. So far you're not convincing me.

See my point above about people being close minded and not wanting to engage any further as they are already so disillusioned with the alternatives.... Nuff said.

This thread has me scared. Demonisation and dehumanisation has been used throughout history, and the end result is usually genocide.

It may seem far-fetched, but it is important to remember that the vast majority of the "nazis" were normal, average Joe Bloggs Germans who were swayed by politics, fear, charisma and propoganda, to become monsters.

I'm not disillusioned thanks. I asked for a list of ukip policies. Grovel was the only one to link the rest just childishly went "but Labour did x y z". It really isn't constructive to a) assume I'm Labour because I disagree - many conservatives detest Farage equally. b) you aren't assuming I'm close minded are you? It's just that I'm not the one planning on voting for someone who simply says 'Ban immigration and oh here's free healthcare'.

Misspixietrix, the kipsters are wanting controlled Immigration, not no Immigration, which other countries currently successfully employ. They may be abhorrent in other avenues but there is nothing wrong with the debate.

And I don't think people are actually reading what tiggeytape, and redtoothbrush are saying, calling everyone who support the shisters ukip, racists or making parallels to hitler are not engaging with issues/fears in a reasonable manner. Sure there are those types of supporters within that group, just as I am sure there are in any other political spectrum.

I personally am not or will ever be a shister ukip supporter, but there are issues which the main parties will take from them because they are genuine concerns

im really not seeing much of an alternative here ukip tory or labour