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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

999 replies

Menolly · 03/04/2014 00:08

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 07/04/2014 00:30

"They love their children, fiercely protect them, go without to provide and care for them."

All women? How do you explain the ones who abuse and/or murder their children then? You may not know them but it still happens.

" it's like you believe that many pregnant women are all harbouring secret full-term baby-killing thoughts and only the laws in place stop them."

Why are you directing that at me? It was Chewbacca's post that I agreed with.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 07/04/2014 00:31

To you, bumbley.

bumbleymummy · 07/04/2014 00:31

Chew, good post to Passme.

ChewbaccasSister · 07/04/2014 00:33

Lovecat - you're right, I did go from a few to a lot. I guess I have met four or five women like this. Some women really will go through that without batting an eyelid. I have honestly met them (though perhaps they are not indicative of the general population ).

Sabrina - I agree with what you say about there not being queues of them and your general experience. Unfortunately, the type of ladies I have met are not general, and actually would go through with a very late abortion, for reasons unfathomable to you or I. That's why it makes me want to throw up. I have met at least three women who would do it with no hesitation if they felt it served their immediate short-term purpose (although I stress that these ladies are ABSOLUTELY not indicative of the general population). If I did a straw poll of my colleagues, I bet we could come up with the names of 20 women who would do it.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 07/04/2014 00:34

The women that abuse or murder their children are damaged, bumbley. They are in the massive minority. It happens in nature too - animals rejecting their young on occasion. But you'd make sure they had to give birth, wouldn't you? You wouldn't allow them a way out of forced motherhood.

passmethewineplease · 07/04/2014 00:35

good post to me?

get your head of chews backside. Hmm

chew, yes a baby is a consequence of sex, that doesn't mean that the woman should lump it though.

be it a part of, independent, inside whatever terminology you wish to use it is the woman's body and she has a right to choose what happens to it. if she doesn't wish to have a foetus inside her then she should have options.

why take away someone's choice? It is a slippery slope.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 07/04/2014 00:35

Or maybe you'd condone the Magdelene Laundries as the answer?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 07/04/2014 00:36

^ to bumbley

bumbleymummy · 07/04/2014 00:37

Sabrina "Autonomy can be defined as the ability of the person to make his or her own decisions"

Do you think a baby/child has autonomy?

"The physical toll that pregnancy and childbirth have on a woman's body is indisputable." Why would it matter whether those changes were because the foetus was part of you or inside you? What' wrong with the foetus not being part of you?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 07/04/2014 00:41

chew, all I'm going to say to your post, is that I'm not sure enforced motherhood is the answer to those women's problems.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 07/04/2014 00:41

No, a foetus inside the body of a woman has no autonomy, bumbly.

bumbleymummy · 07/04/2014 00:43

Sabrina, and you don't think any 'damaged' women would choose to have late term abortions non-medical reasons?

Yes, pass, I agreed with it so I said it was good. If saying 'good post' and agreeing with someone means your head is on their backside then there are quite a few backside dwellers from a few pages back agreeing with posts about men being jealous of women's fertility. :)

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 07/04/2014 00:44

What' wrong with the foetus not being part of you?

Nothing - I don't agree with that - but it doesn't change the argument.

bumbleymummy · 07/04/2014 00:44

"Or maybe you'd condone the Magdelene Laundries as the answer?"

Another ridiculous comment.

bumbleymummy · 07/04/2014 00:45

"No, a foetus inside the body of a woman has no autonomy, bumbly."

I didn't ask that. I asked if you think a baby/child has autonomy seeing as they aren't able to make their own decisions.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 07/04/2014 00:45

Why? It's the alternative the Catholic church came up with.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 07/04/2014 00:46

A born baby has rights in law. They do not have autonomy - surely you know that?

passmethewineplease · 07/04/2014 00:46

could have just said I agree..anyway that's me going way OT..

bumble, do you attend these protests? I don't know if you have answered it before, I did ask a few posts back.

ChewbaccasSister · 07/04/2014 00:46

Pass - well, I haven't said take away her right to choose in all circumstances. For those advocating abortion on demand.....even our current law doesn't (though it is currently misused). It has to have less of a negative impact on the mother's physical or emotional health than pregnancy.

Abortion past 24 weeks - it sucks that NI is different from the rest of the UK for situations where there is severe disability or incompatibility with life. Poor Baby having to go through what she is.....her poor baby will die at birth so Baby should have whatever she needs to get through it, whether that be abortion or whatever.

Some PP have advocated abortion on demand for any reason up to term. Not a chance I agree with that! Too open for abuse and I think most medical teams would have a huge problem with it too. That takes abortion from ending the life of a child that could not exist out of the mother, to ending the life of a child that could easily survive. THAT is a much bigger slippery slope IMHO.

It is plain that Bumbley and I do not share the same opinions, and she may to always have responded sensitively, but the way she has been targeted on here tonight, with abuse, swearing and nastiness, would have been classed as bullying, if she was a poster with a more popular viewpoint. If she was pro-choice and everyone having a go at her was pro-life, this thread would have gone pfft a long time ago.

And she is not up my arse....I would have noticed!

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 07/04/2014 00:48

Bumbley doesn't attend protests, pass, but knows and is friends with people that do. She (seems to) support them.

ChewbaccasSister · 07/04/2014 00:48

*not always

passmethewineplease · 07/04/2014 00:49

that's what you think chew, they can creep up on you. Grin

I feel uneasy about abortion to term for none medical reasons, does that make me a hypocrite and not pro choice after all? I don't know. I do know I support abortion for whatever reason within the current law.

bumbleymummy · 07/04/2014 00:54

"Why? It's the alternative the Catholic church came up with."

Again, Sabrina, you don't have to be Catholic to be pro-life. I'm pretty sure you've been told this a few times now.

"A born baby has rights in law. They do not have autonomy "
So it's not actually the lack of autonomy that means it's ok to terminate the foetus - it's the fact that it has no rights in law?

No, pass, I do not. I've answered that before. I support their right to protest though.

Thank you Chewbacca.

ChewbaccasSister · 07/04/2014 00:54

I don't think it makes you a hypocrite. It's awful to think of a 38 week old baby being killed for non-medical reasons. What would be the difference between doctors killing your baby at 38 weeks because you'd decided you didn't want it any more, and a woman who gives birth to a 38 year old baby but immediately kills it as she has changed her mind? Aside from getting a third party to do the dirty work, no difference IMHO.

Got to go, my judgey-pants giving my piles serious grief.....or is it Bumbley after all Grin

ChewbaccasSister · 07/04/2014 00:55

That's to Pass ^