Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

999 replies

Menolly · 03/04/2014 00:08

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

OP posts:
thebody · 06/04/2014 18:59

The vast majority of women post abortion feel nothing but relief Bumbly sorry to burst your dramatic bubble.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 19:00

the body, I said "and abortion never causes physical or emotional harm to anyone?"

You saying that the vast majority of women feel relief does not account for everyone. Or are you being dismissive of people who regret their abortions?

twofingerstoGideon · 06/04/2014 19:03

There you go again, bumbley... I have not ridiculed or abused anyone.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 19:03

Sabrina, I've seen pro-choicers calling women some pretty disgusting names on this thread alone. Tbh, it's usually the pro-choicers doing most of the name calling.

Alisvolatpropiis · 06/04/2014 19:04

bumble

Is the foetus physically independent from the mother?

No,no it isn't.

It is not an autonomous life form ergo the mother's autonomous will is paramount.

I feel rather like I'm banging my head against a brick will trying to explain the most simple and glaringly obvious of facts.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 06/04/2014 19:04

Why do pro-choicers resort to statements like this on these threads when pro-lifers don't?

"Pro-lifers" just resort to real life violence, lies - yes, actually telling lies to school children, faked pictures, intimidation of women working and going into Marie Stopes, block the pavements, follow women home in taxis, wave placards in the faces of passersby, including children, need I go on?

Nasty pro-choicers - using statements like that - perhaps they should use lies and firebombs like the pro-lifers?

thebody · 06/04/2014 19:07

I am sure some feel sad of course and some may regret their choice. That's the same with any decision in life.

I know so many friends who have had terminations and they all feel a mixture of these emotions but usually end with it was the right decision for me at the time

That doesn't alter the absolute right for adult women to be able to make that choice in the first place.

It's not my business and it's not yours either.

The right if a woman to access safe free abortions without fear of judgment or legal barriers is a fundamental right, or should be.

None of those women I know have wished they could have been forced to give birth against their wishes. None.

JapaneseMargaret · 06/04/2014 19:11

Or are you being dismissive of people who regret their abortions?

Hmm

You're a fine one to talk about being dismissive of other people.

You've done that throughout this thread, most notably to baby, who you think should give birth on your terms, rather than her own.

pommedeterre · 06/04/2014 19:15

I don't think though that people who do regret their abortions would convert that into abortion should therefore not exist.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 06/04/2014 19:16

I'm going for one in less than two weeks. It's 100% the right option but I can understand people having those opinions though not making the situation even worse for a woman who's experiencing it... as for the emotional consequences, I will probably feel partly relieved but wish it had never come to this :(.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 19:19

twofingers - by 'you' I was referring to 'pro-choicers' I should have made that clearer.

"pro-back street abortion" Still a type of abortion...so no, not 'pro' it.

thebody · 06/04/2014 19:19

vampire brave post and sending you hugs.

I imagine your feelings are very typical of other women's and you have a perfect right to express them and to access the help/care and outcome to your situation that is best for you and your life. Flowers

blackcats73 · 06/04/2014 19:20

Do some people really believe in termination to birth? Seriously????

I'm pro choice until 24 weeks, (for ANY reason, including sex of fetus) then the fetus is capable of life outside the womb,

I understand the theory... fetus attached to woman therefore belonging to her but physiologically and scientifically the fetus is human surely???

My personal opinion s that people who would allow termination to birth are as barmy as those who believe that abortion of a six week old fetus is murder... and as dogmatic and unscientific.

...unless the fetus has a terminal disability and incapable of life outside the womb.

The laws allowing abortion until 24 weeks are right , it shouldn't be lowered but certainly not increases FFS!!!!!!

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 06/04/2014 19:22

thank-you - I wasn't sure about posting it but I can't talk about it in RL. also, I know (at least, I think) the majority of MN are rational people.

thebody · 06/04/2014 19:22

bumbly you are pro back street abortion if you are against allowing women safe abortion on demand.

You dodge all the hard questions but please at least allow that women will always seek abortions and as happened before the 60s here and still around the world they die in horrific circumstances.

SuburbanRhonda · 06/04/2014 19:24

vampyre, you will get a lot of support from people on here - as you say, the majority are rational and the others can be easily ignored.

So sorry to hear you have no-one to talk to about it in RL. Sending you hugs x

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 06/04/2014 19:25

Bum - give up with the faux outrage. I stand by every word I said, especially about you being pro-backstreet abortion. And frankly, the way you have spoken to and about Baby is reprehensible! You should be ashamed.

NoArmaniNoPunani · 06/04/2014 19:25

Do some people really believe in termination to birth? Seriously????

I do. I think any other stance is disablist since disabled foetuses can be terminated up until birth.

SuburbanRhonda · 06/04/2014 19:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 06/04/2014 19:30

Vampyre I'm sorry you don't have anyone to talk to, that must be very difficult and lonely :( But you will get plenty of virtual support here, most people are very kind and reasonable.

thebody · 06/04/2014 19:31

vampire of course you will get support on here from the vast majority of posters.

blackcats you may need to read the previous posts here to tone down your approach.

There are many reasons why women don't access abortions until later than 24 weeks, rape, insest, menopause baby, late pick up of abnormalities and the death of a baby in utero.

It's for a woman to decide with the support of her medical team.

I certainly support abortion up to 30 weeks and beyond in these circumstances.

It's not your business to agree/disagree or judge nor is it mine.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 06/04/2014 19:35

SuburbanRhonda No, she certainly hasn't shown any evidence of it.

CaptChaos · 06/04/2014 19:37

I am pro-life.

Pro the life of the woman forced to incubate a foetus against her will.

Pro the life of the woman who carries all the risk during pregnancy.

Pro the life of the woman who chooses for whatever reason she deems best, not to continue to incubate a foetus.

It's not people who are pro women's rights who feel the need to lie and use emotive language, it's people who don't care about women that do that.

It's not the people who are pro women's rights who have to lie in word and picture in order to make their presence felt, it's people who don't care about women who do that.

Anti-choice people just want to restrict women's bodily autonomy. To reduce women to incubators. To put women at terrible risk of harm.

Until the foetus is born, it has no rights, it isn't a person, it is a collection of body parts which are sustained by it's host.

A woman should have the choice, until the moment of birth to choose to abort. Unless people are suggesting that at some stage in pregnancy, women should lose their rights over their own body?

twofingerstoGideon · 06/04/2014 19:44

Thanks Vampyre. Be kind to yourself.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 19:45

Ali, that's not what I asked you. I asked if you thought the foetus has a body and if not, what do you think it has?

Sabrina, no, not all pro-lifers do that. Just reminding you that the protesters we are talking about from the OP - "do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary"

A pro-choicer on this thread is suggesting hitting them and 'stands by' her statement. No, pro-choicers never threaten or commit violent acts. Hmm (some people consider abortion a violent act btw)

the body, I'm glad you can recognise that not everyone feels that way and therefore my previous statement stands - abortion can cause emotional and physical pain.

Japanese, that was a reference back to earlier on the thread where it was pointed out that people are quite often dismissive of people who regret their abortions. I have not been dismissive of baby. I just think that a disabled foetus has the same right not to be killed as a healthy foetus, a healthy baby or a disabled baby. To me, life is life. I know you don't agree. As far as 'thinking it is the right thing to happen' goes as some earlier poster suggested. Don't be so ridiculous. I don't think any mother should have to find out that their child will not survive birth.

pomme, "I don't think though that people who do regret their abortions would convert that into abortion should therefore not exist." I didn't say that they would -not the point I was making and no, no daughters, yet.

Vampyre, sorry to hear that. I wasn't sure whether or not to post to you because if I say anything I will be attacked because you know what my views are. If I say nothing then I will be attacked for being insensitive/dismissive. I am genuinely sorry that you find yourself in a situation where you feel abortion is the only/right choice. I don't know your circumstances but maybe you could speak to someone at one of the charities if you feel there is no one close to you that you could talk to.

yes, balckcats they do. Quite a few on MN it would seem. Very shocking and quite horrific and thankfully not representative of the UK population as a whole.

"you are pro back street abortion if you are against allowing women safe abortion on demand."

False. Abortion is abortion. It doesn't matter where it is carried out. We have better access to contraception and better contraception available than in the 1960s. It is improving all the time so not really a true comparison.

Careful NoArman, mentioning 'disabilist' on this thread doesn't go down well. Although you're pro-choice so they might take it better coming from you.