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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

999 replies

Menolly · 03/04/2014 00:08

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

OP posts:
TheBabyFacedAssassin · 06/04/2014 11:50

MrsMot thank you, I will be doing everything in my power to see that women in Northern Ireland do not have to go through this in the future.

My case is particularly unfortunate due to failings by the NHS meaning that I was unable to self refer for a termination through the likes of Marie Stopes as the 23 weeks and 6 days deadline had passed. Hence being forced to carry to term. The law in Northern Ireland means that the hospitals here will not take anything to do with a referral for termination for medical reasons after the 24 week point.

thebody · 06/04/2014 11:55

Baby your case is heartbreaking to any sane person and if course it's not right for you to be suffering like this.

Bum yes I think the rights of the mother to choose how/if/when she gives birth are more important than the right to life of the foetus.

I am not confused at all and neither are the other posters.

We can look at reality and answer the hard questions.

You can't.

Golferman · 06/04/2014 11:57

This is the religion that treated young in married mothers with abuse and forcibly taking the children away for adoption. Disgusting, controlling and abusive religion in my view

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 06/04/2014 11:58

This is just an argument exercise for bumbley. It's all just words on a screen and picking apart other people's words. It's all about saying you haven't time to post, but then posting constantly throughout the day and the following morning.

She can turn the computer off and go back to her life, no doubt drinking coffee with those placard-waving friends of hers.

That's why she feels comfortable telling Baby 'not to SHOUT' - because she's detached. Baby cannot be detached - this is her real life, and she is suffering directly because of people like Bumbley's views being held sacred. Women in Ireland are not allowed autonomy over their own body - women are sacred vessels of birth, and this must be carried to the absolute logical conclusion- resulting in the suffering of women like Baby, the deaths of women like Savita. It's brutal.

But so long as bumbley and others like her are not upset by the idea of others having abortions.

Angry
Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 12:00

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SuburbanRhonda · 06/04/2014 12:04

sabrina and dawn

You're both so right. bum doesn't give a shit.

And I don't mean that to be funny Angry

Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 12:06

I showed this to my 17 year old daughter. Her first reaction was "Bumbley's a bloke".
I do wonder.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 12:07

Baby, I know that my opinion is particularly difficult for you to hear right now but please don't make assumptions about me. Yes, I am we'll aware of what people who find out that their babies have a disability and/or will be stillborn go through. Please don't assume that because I have an opinion that values the life of the foetus while it is still in utero that I am lacking compassion.

How would I cope? I don't know how I would cope with it at all in the same way that I have no idea how I would cope if one of my children now was diagnosed with a terminal illness. I don't know how parents cope watching their children die, resuscitating them and watching them die again, I don't know how they do it and I have huge admiration for them and their courage. Would any of them wish they could bring forward the inevitable? I don't know. Not sure it's a question I could ask and I wonder how some others here would feel about it as well tbh.

I see people coping every day with things I personally can't imagine coping with. when i asked my cousin about how shes coping with an (unrelated but very difficult, life changing) situation she told me that she didnt think she would be able to cope until she just had to.

Again, I'm very sorry that your baby will not survive. Thanks

AmyMumsnet · 06/04/2014 12:09

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your reports.

We understand that this is an incredibly emotive subject matter, but we'd appreciate it if posters could demonstrate some sensitivity when discussing the difficult choices that others have had to make.

We've been through the thread and deleted posts which we feel have broken talk guidelines. However, we have left certain posts as they have been repeated so many times by other posters that deleting the original would be ineffectual and make the discussion more confusing to follow.

Please get in touch if you have any other concerns, and we'd ask everyone to consider our talk guidelines when posting.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 12:10

Dawn, "Yes I do, and the ONS and various surveys have shown that number to be increasing. "

the survey shows that the majority want it to either stay the same(24 weeks) or be reduced - only a tiny minority want it to be increased which means that the majority of people apply conditions to when they think abortion is acceptable which means that they are only 'pro-choice' up to a point.

TheBabyFacedAssassin · 06/04/2014 12:15

Bumbley - I don't want your pity or your damn flowers.
I just wanted you to show some compassion.
Your opinion, which is unfortunately favoured by the law, is precisely why women like me have to go through this inhumane torture.
I can speak, from experience, and say I would never willingly go through this if there were any other option. And that's precisely why you just have to 'cope' whatever the hell that even means.

Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 12:20

but please don't make assumptions about me.

  1. Don't engage unless you are willing to do so on their terms.
  2. Difficult situation, don't try to hold the moral highground, you only damage yourself.
  3. Go away and leave her alone. Under the circumstances you have nothing of any value to offer.
bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 12:26

Dawn, no one has to post on/read this thread if they don't want to and no one has the right to tell people whether or not they should post.

thebody · 06/04/2014 12:28

See for me bum it's not about how anyone else feels /thinks is it?
It's Babys body so baby's choice. That's it really isn't it.

Once a foetus is born and becomes a baby then it too has total rights to life and care.

That includes not allowing random adults cutting it's genitals for no good medical reason too.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 06/04/2014 12:31

Bumbley, what you are failing to understand is that Baby wants to make a choice about her own body - a medical procedure is available that could ease her pain and suffering over the next 3 months.

People likeminded to you are denying her that choice. Imposing your belief systems on another - and prolonging their pain and suffering.

The bottom line is that it is the woman's body, her choice.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 12:31

Thebody, what do you think is different about the baby's body in utero that means mutilation there is ok? The foetus' body is not part of the woman's body.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 12:32

"The bottom line is that it is the woman's body, her choice."

I know that is your opinion, it is not mine. The foetus' body is not the woman's body.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 06/04/2014 12:33

It is while it's in utero.

Alisvolatpropiis · 06/04/2014 12:34

bumble

Of course the body of the foetus is part of the mother's body.

What kind of biology teacher did you have?!

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 06/04/2014 12:35

The Catholic kind, I would think, Alis.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 12:39

No Sabrina, it is not. It is inside the mother's uterus but it has it's own body with its own organs, nervous system, circulatory system etc. unless you think that a pregnant woman has two heads, 4 arms, 4 legs, 2 hearts and potentially a penis if the foetus is male?

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 12:40

Sabrina, again, you don't have to be catholic to be pro-life.

Alisvolatpropiis · 06/04/2014 12:45

bumble

A foetus is not an autonomous life form

A foetus is not an autonomous life form

A foetus is not an autonomous life form

A foetus is not an autonomous life form

A foetus is not an autonomous life form

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 06/04/2014 12:46

Sabrina, again, you don't have to be catholic to be pro-life.

But it helps.

Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 12:49

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