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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

999 replies

Menolly · 03/04/2014 00:08

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

OP posts:
TheHoneyBadger · 06/04/2014 10:27

i'm a bit lost now - was bumbley actually suggesting i was lying or have people just assumed she was because her brain wasn't computing that people did actually inhabit colonies and raise children there?

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:28

"There bloody well are Jesuit boarding schools in the Himalayas, bum - look it up! "

So you decided to jump to the conclusion that I was accusing Honey of lying? What a surprise!

Also, (again) not 'trump' be equal to.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:30

And that's the response I get for being sympathetic... Flowers for one poster, Hmm for me.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:31

No, honey, I was not suggesting you we're lying.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:31

were*

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 06/04/2014 10:32

I don't use the term 'pro-life' any more - it just doesn't seem appropriate when this sort of anti-abortion violence is considered justifiable.

This sort of demonstration outside Marie Stopes is not peaceful, they are not just 'praying' - they are carrying on a campaign of intimidation to workers and women visiting the clinic - and they have admitted as much publicly.

I call them 'forced-birthers' or anti-women misogynists - either works.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:33

Sabrina, Do you still use 'pro-choice' to refer to the women who only support abortion in certain situations?

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:34

Sorry, not just women - people

CaptChaos · 06/04/2014 10:36

Sabrina has it on the nail. People who call themselves pro-life are lying. They are in fact, anti-women's rights, forced birthers, misogynistic.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 06/04/2014 10:38

You're not really interested in my answer to that, are you bumbley?

However, I will answer it for you, if you like.

But first, I'd like to hear you answer the question about Baby - it's been asked several times now. Do you think she should be forced to continue her pregnancy (as she is being) or do you think she should be allowed an abortion?

Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 10:39

Dawn, I said that pro-choice was a misnomer and you said it wasn't. I take it that you're now accepting that it is because the majority of people do not actually support the woman's choice unconditionally? Good.

Bless you Bumbley 21 pages in and you can still make me laugh.
Do you have children, I sincerely hope you don't talk to them this way!
Oh another page...

Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 10:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:40

I answered up thread Sabrina - within the last page or two. Are you going to answer mine now? I am genuinely interested.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 06/04/2014 10:41

Could you repeat it for me please bumbley - I have RTFT, but I missed it?

A simple yes, she should be allowed an abortion, or no, she shouldn't be allowed an abortion.

twofingerstoGideon · 06/04/2014 10:42

Sabrina the first thing that jumped out at me on your link was the names of the perpetrators involved in this violence: Eric, James, Paul, Scott, Michael, Peter. All men. All people who will never, ever have to make this choice for themselves.

Bullying arseholes sending a clear message about how much they value life...

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:43

I'll take that a yes Dawn! The majority do not support the idea of abortion to term in any circumstances therefore for most people 'pro-choice' is a misnomer.

twofingerstoGideon · 06/04/2014 10:47

Could you repeat it for me please bumbley - I have RTFT, but I missed it?

A simple yes, she should be allowed an abortion, or no, she shouldn't be allowed an abortion.

Bumbley's answer when I asked this question:

Re baby, I did address that (indirectly) in my post about what I believe. I think life starts before birth therefore in the same way as you think that a baby who is born disabled has the right not to be killed, I think a disabled foetus has a right not to be killed.

My follow-up question:
So I think that means yes, you think the mother should be forced to carry to term. Can't you just say that plainly?

(unanswered, I believe)

twofingerstoGideon · 06/04/2014 10:48

^^ That was for Sabrina...

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:50

Thanks two fingers - it was within the last two pages Sabrina.

I know you guys love yes and no answers but I prefer an explanation. Yes or no would just result in more questions and requests for explanations anyway.

Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 10:51

I'll take that a yes Dawn! The majority do not support the idea of abortion to term in any circumstances therefore for most people 'pro-choice' is a misnomer.
Oh do grow up, honestly Bumbley hell will freeze before I agree with you on this! And if you can't have an adult discussion then don't discuss adult themes, really, this is like talking to a ten year old now.
Oh, and I have three children with disabilities so don't pull that card with me. Hmm

twofingerstoGideon · 06/04/2014 10:53

So, bumbley, you do think the woman should be forced to carry to term even though she does not wish to. A plain yes or no will be fine actually.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 06/04/2014 10:58

Do you think baby should be forced to carry her baby to term, bum?

I know the answer that any humane person would give already -it's that baby should be spared 12 weeks additional suffering and agony, and offered a safe medical procedure to terminate the pregnancy. So that she can grieve for the loss of her baby in peace.

Isn't it..? Oh, of course - the forced birther is 'no' -although you won't actually own it. You dilly-dally around it, never quite giving a straight answer.

thebody · 06/04/2014 10:59

Dawn just keep on linking that ridiculous remark as it just about sums up the crap spoken by these people.

Bumbly the thing is people like you and other women haters/controllers/mysoginistic men really do belive that a woman does not deserve to have full control over her body.

Especially when pregnant a woman doesn't have the right to decide if she gives birth or not. That's it in a nut shell.

You can't answer the question about Baby because it involved real life hard issues not silly handwringing or ridiculous posturing outside clinics bullying women.

The understanding of babys situation required empathy, decency, pity and unfortunately people like your nasty bullying pro life mates have none of those do they?

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:59

Dawn, I know you don't want to agree with me but you basically have. 'Pro-choice' is not an accurate way to describe someone who places conditions on when someone can have an abortion (which is what the majority of people do - 24 weeks being the most common condition)

Two,

"I know you guys love yes and no answers but I prefer an explanation. Yes or no would just result in more questions and requests for explanations anyway."

You have my answer.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 06/04/2014 11:00

Typo- forced birther answer is 'yes' - she should be forced to carry to term. Just because. The bible, lie begins at conception, blah.....

Inhumane.