Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

999 replies

Menolly · 03/04/2014 00:08

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

OP posts:
SuburbanRhonda · 06/04/2014 09:58

You may not have seen it but it happens. Someone mentions someone who has regretted an abortion and it gets followed by lots of posters saying they didn't regret theirs.

So where's the link, bum.

If you've been on these threads you speak of, they shouldn't be hard to find.

twofingerstoGideon · 06/04/2014 10:01

I was talking about a family friend who regrets hers nearly 50 years later and not one person acknowledge it - they just all jumped in with their posts about how they didn't regret theirs.

So you were telling an anecdote about something that happened to someone else and people responded by telling you their own experiences? That is somewhat different from a poster coming on MN and saying 'I regret my abortion' and having a load of posters saying 'Well I don't regret mine.'

Honey - sorry you regretted yours and that you felt under such pressure. Your experience sounds very traumatic. Thanks

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:01

Thank you two fingers. Although I still think if it had been me threatening violence rather than someone who shared your 'pro-choice' opinion that you would have had something to say about it.

Also, threatened/ attacked as the person earlier suggested. If people think like that then I can see why the protestors may be worried about assault.

Honey, "there are lots of things i regret in life - it doesn't mean i think they should be banned so that i couldn't have done them and would have avoided regret ffs."

That's not why people want to ban abortion but you know that already.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:02

The honey, "i didn't say women often feel they have no choice. "

That's a shame. I guess we don't agree in that then. Some women very much feel like they have no alternative.

Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 10:05

Do you think it's ok to threaten/commit acts of violence against people praying as a previous poster suggested?
Do you actually speak in logical fallacies in real life?

I don't think Catholics spend a lot of time banging drums at their prayer vigil. Do you think it's ok to threaten/commit acts of violence against people praying as a previous poster suggested?
Good grief, I have AS and even I can see that the idiom here!

TheHoney, that has been said before. Pro-choice is a misnomer too.
(Well for most people)
Thing is Bumbley the figures consistently bear out that it isn't most people, is it.

Oh a new page...

Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 10:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FreudiansSlipper · 06/04/2014 10:06

it is awful that women feel they have no other choice and for your friend who had a termination 50 years ago there was so little support (if she was on her own)

this is why choice is so important that women are able to have that choice and be supported which ever choice they make

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:07

Surbaban, see last post to two fingers re links and my experience of posting. I hope that by drawing attention to it, it may improve people's responses in the future.

HoneyDragon, your experience sounds awful and I'm very sorry that you found yourself in that situation.

Also, Jesuit boarding school in the Himalayas????

twofingerstoGideon · 06/04/2014 10:07

Although I still think if it had been me threatening violence rather than someone who shared your 'pro-choice' opinion that you would have had something to say about it.

WHY would you think that of me, bumbley? You don't know me. You are speculating again.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:10

Dawn, the figures do not reflect that people want to extend the abortion limit beyond 24 weeks in line with a genuine 'pro-life' stance.

Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 10:11

I think a disabled foetus has a right not to be killed.
No matter how much emotional trauma the mother is going through, no matter that it may kill the mother?

Thing is Bumbley you don't do yourself any favours. You are I think a little delusional if you think you appearing on these threads garners you any support. People look at them and find your attitude a mixture of terrifying, appalling and sad. The fact that you are so unbending and continuously cruel to somebody in the situation really does not make you look like a good or caring person, just the opposite.
This is not a personal attack, I am trying to enable you to see that you either need to temper and refine your arguments, or give up.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:13

Freudian, I think you've missed the point that avortion isn't actually a 'choice' for some women. They feel that they have no alternative.

Two fingers, true. You may prove me wrong. We'll see. You've pulled me up for less before.

TheHoneyBadger · 06/04/2014 10:14

bumbley yes that's where my mother was schooled - they're not kidding when they say give me a child till they're seven....

Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 10:14

But the majority of us still want abortions as and when, at least up to the legal limit now. That's the most people bit, Bumbley.
Most people think that abortion should be freely available to those who require it when they require it. It's a fact. Now, read what I said above.
I know it won't make the slightest difference, but at least I can say I tried.

Dawndonnaagain · 06/04/2014 10:14

Flowers Honey

SuburbanRhonda · 06/04/2014 10:15

I hope that by drawing attention to it, it may improve people's responses in the future.

We are all trying so hard to improve, but we know in our hearts that we will never reach the giddy heights of your standards, bum

FreudiansSlipper · 06/04/2014 10:19

no I have not missed the point

I said there should always be a choice and women should be supported with whatever choice they make, that is why any form of protest should not happen outside a clinic these people are not supporting women in making a choice they are trying to stop women making the choice to have a termination and make aware those that do in their eyes have done something terribly wrong which many may feel anyway they do not need further punishment

I am well aware that for many women they feel a termination is the only option they have

twofingerstoGideon · 06/04/2014 10:19

Two fingers, true. You may prove me wrong. We'll see.

And how exactly do you suppose I'm going to prove to you that I don't condone violence. What a bizarre response.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:20

Dawn, I don't expect you to agree with my opinion. I'm just saying what it is. Even if a baby being born disabled caused a mother huge amounts of emotional trauma you would still think the baby would have the right not to be killed. (I hope!) I just happen to think those rights begin sooner.

Again, I am not trying to gain support by posting in these threads. I actually find the views of genuine pro-choices ( who think a woman should be able to terminate a full term pregnancy) terrifying, appalling and sad. My opinion of them doesn't stop them posting (I don't try to tell them they should stop posting either)

TheHoneyBadger · 06/04/2014 10:20

thanks - i'm genuinely 'alright now' Grin but my point is it wasn't abortion that damaged me it was an abusive mother utilising a belief system as part of her abuse and the poor handling of the termination services at the hospital and being young and vulnerable that created problems for me rather than abortion itself in a vacuum.

i find it disingenous to say the least when they trot out the psychiatric problems some women face after termination as any kind of evidence as if they exist in such a vacuum. they never acknowledge for example that some of those women will have been pregnant through incest or other rape which is the 'cause' of the trauma at least as much as the resulting abortion. or that they will have been having an abortion because they were in a massive mess in their life that meant having a baby was not viable and that that same mess would be the main contributory factor to depression etc. or the myriad of other reasons that might be both the cause of having an abortion and the cause of the psychiatric problems they had in life iyswim.

LoonvanBoon · 06/04/2014 10:21

There bloody well are Jesuit boarding schools in the Himalayas, bum - look it up!

Veering wildly off point of the thread, I know, but getting so fed up to see bum still questioning / refusing to accept other posters' experiences.

As for all the stuff about women feeling they have no alternative but to have an abortion - well, I'm sure that's true in some cases. There may be pressure from others, or the woman may feel that she doesn't have the support to continue with the pregnancy. Those factors do reduce the degree to which it's a free choice, of course; & it's very unfortunate.

But if you had your way, bum, no woman would have the choice at all because the foetus' "right to life" would presumably be enshrined in law & trump her right to bodily autonomy. So why would you decide to argue from the point of view of choice, when that's precisely the thing you want to take away? Your arguments sound so inconsistent &, frankly, dishonest.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:22

HoneyBadger, that sounds really awful. I can't imagine sending my children away to boarding school at any age never mind as young children to one in the Himalayas!

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 10:24

Dawn, I said that pro-choice was a misnomer and you said it wasn't. I take it that you're now accepting that it is because the majority of people do not actually support the woman's choice unconditionally? Good.

CaptChaos · 06/04/2014 10:24

I agree that some women feel they have no choice but to abort.

So, what are you doing to improve mental health services for women? Poverty? Domestic violence? Rape? Disability services for children and adults? Homelessness? Maternity rights? Parental leave?

Even if every single one of these problems were solved with a magic wand tomorrow, women would still need the choice of abortion to be there. No woman should be forced to be an incubator against their will.

TheHoneyBadger · 06/04/2014 10:25

well probably because you're not living and working in india in the 1950's bumbley Hmm