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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

999 replies

Menolly · 03/04/2014 00:08

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 05/04/2014 20:55

Sorry Baby, I must have confused you with someone on the other thread whose baby had anencephaly and who was not having an abortion - genuine mistake. I'm sorry that you find my opinions offensive.

PlumProf · 05/04/2014 20:55

There are some heartbreaking posts on here Sad

Baby I am so sorry for what you are going through. I wish you strength and I condemn the society that is putting you through this.

African what a brave decision too, regarding your baby. And I agree with you about your cousin - his mother should have had information and a choice, and the total suffering would have been immensely diminished.

Solid has it about right...

thebody · 05/04/2014 20:56

Baby so very sorry and hugs.

If you need support,as that's all we can give you unfortunately, then pm any one empathetic on this thread xx

chocolatespiders · 05/04/2014 20:58

I will send my mum covered in her get you rosaries
off my ovaries badges and fridge magnets!!

bumbleymummy · 05/04/2014 20:59

African, yes, I am speaking from experience. Maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions about what people do IRL and what their experiences may be just because you don't happen to share their opinion.

You're also jumping to conclusions about my opinions on euthanasia. Surprise, surprise.

merrymouse · 05/04/2014 20:59

"It's quite another to interfere with a private individual's right to act within the law."

As in interfere by standing around blocking the pavement in front of a clinic. Obviously two can play at that game and people could stand around being annoying in front of the church when it was time for mass. That way madness lies though.

bumbleymummy · 05/04/2014 21:02

Also, baby, I am very sorry that you received such tragic news about your baby. Thanks

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 05/04/2014 21:06

You're sorry, but you don't have a problem with Baby being forced to continue with her pregnancy? And, as I asked earlier, you don't think that is cruel and inhumane?

CaptChaos · 05/04/2014 21:06

I have a problem with women deciding what to do with the foetus' body.

Then by inference you have a problem with women choosing what to do with their bodies.

The foetus is not autonomous until it takes it's first breath, and is therefore not part of the 'choice' equation.

Therefore, it is completely rational to believe that a baby that has been born, is breathing and is separate from it's mother has a right to life whereas the foetus inside the woman's body, which is having all it's bodily functions done for it and therefore isn't autonomous, doesn't.

So, your opinion isn't, in and of itself, rational or logical.

I believe that the abortion laws should be changed. Women shouldn't have to find 2 doctors who agree that they can do what they like with their bodies, nor should women have to justify to anyone why they want to have control over their body. If a woman wants to rid herself of the foetus she happens to be carrying, then she should be allowed to do so. No other surgical procedure requires that 2 doctors agree to it, nor should abortion.

Finally, before I go out. All those 'turn-arounds' the anti-women protesters crow about on their Facebook pages... The clinics know when the protesters usually break for a bit of praying with a nice sandwich and a weak lemon drink. The 'turn-arounds' are encouraged to return when the woman haters have gone. And they do.

AfricanExport · 05/04/2014 21:16

oh. so you are pro-euthanasia but anti- abortion?

Right. That's perfectly logical... Confused

So what's the reasoning then? When is euthanasia justifiable if every one has a right to life regardless of the circumstances.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 05/04/2014 21:16

bum, every time I click on one of the many abortion threads on MN, you're there - posting a million and one posts all saying the same thing - every single time. Yet you say you're not on a crusade. Not much!

Every single time you also deeply upset and offend women who have had to make traumatic decisions which may haunt them forever more - and then you go "Oh sorry you find my opinions offensive " - it is very very unpleasant to read. You are entitled to your views - but your overwhelming presence on these threads just comes across like you're badgering women who exercise a legal choice over their own bodies. You have no business arguing about someone else's womb. No business at all.

You have just caused real women real pain here - does that make you feel good? You are the only regular MNer that makes me want a hide poster option.

AfricanExport · 05/04/2014 21:25

Thanks Plum

MadAsFish · 05/04/2014 21:51

The body, the majority if people would like to see a reduction in the time limit for abortion.

Liar.

SuburbanRhonda · 05/04/2014 22:03

bum

It was not implied by me, it was inferred by you.

Massive difference.

Dawndonnaagain · 05/04/2014 22:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SuburbanRhonda · 05/04/2014 22:37

dawn, I salute you!

I'm so relieved the vast majority of posters don't think like bum.

Alisvolatpropiis · 05/04/2014 23:52

I like that you are keeping it up Dawn. It means late comers to the thread won't miss that immense piece of idiocy. Important.

thebody · 06/04/2014 00:16

Yes well done Dawn

MadAsFish absolutely . Just lies.

passmethewineplease · 06/04/2014 01:18

Baby. I have no words for you.Thanks

Bumble Your sorry to assassin was pretty much an after thought wasn't it?

Do you honestly think that forcing a woman like baby to give birth is anything but abhorrent?!

Oh and for someone who "didn't have time" you seem to have found an awful lot of time to post.

Fucking horrible people that do this to vulnerable women.

They need a slap round the face with their placards.

I would gladly accept the job.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 08:17

African, voluntary euthanasia.

To the people that point out that I'm on these threads a lot - well, you must be too otherwise you wouldn't know that I was. I end up posting a lot because I get asked a lot of questions/have my opinions attacked/criticised etc and I reply. Do you police other threads in this way?

I don't expect any of you to change your mind. You don't think about things the same way as I (or others who share my opinion) do. We think that the foetus does just just magically come alive when it is born - we consider it alive before that and we therefore think it has a right to life. You would disagree with a mother killing her baby the moment it was born because it is only then that you consider it a life worth preserving - we think that a lot sooner. ( do be fair most 'pro-choices' think that too. There are very few who feel comfortable with the idea that a woman should be able to terminate to term for any reason. I think people can only say because they think it would never happen. I'm not so sure they would agree with it if it was actually happening.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 08:19

Interesting to see people supporting bullying behaviour and personal attacks and suggesting violence (passme) on a thread objecting to people having a peaceful protest.

SuburbanRhonda · 06/04/2014 08:35

As well you know bum, it is not the right to peaceful protest that is being debated.

It is the right of anti-abortioonists to protest outside the clinic where women are exercising their legal right to receive a range of medical services without harassment.

Think what you like about the definition of when a foetus becomes autonomous and becomes entitled to have its needs trump those of the woman carrying it. This is not what this thread's about.

If you take nothing else from this thread, bum, be aware that no-one on this thread is changing their mind as a result of anything you've posted. With your offensive, morally superior comments, you have ensured that people stop listening the moment you start posting.

pommedeterre · 06/04/2014 08:38

Peaceful protest my arse. Mean, vicious, bigoted protest against a lawful right is more like it.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 08:42

Not trump - equal. Equal right to life.

I just think it's interesting that someone would suggest hitting a peaceful protestor because they don't agree with what they're doing/where they're doing it. Who is more in the wrong there? Peaceful protestor or person commuting assault?

Again, I don't expect anyone here to change their opinion.

bumbleymummy · 06/04/2014 08:42

Committing*