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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

999 replies

Menolly · 03/04/2014 00:08

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

OP posts:
Dawndonnaagain · 05/04/2014 19:35

There is Bumbley a great deal in your posts that is extraordinarily offensive and you are the only person here that can't see that. I am not the only person telling you this.

AfricanExport · 05/04/2014 19:39

Bumble, answer my questions

a. Define life for me.

b. Are you going to go and look after these kids now. When the shit hits the fan and we have loads of unwanted children due either to physical disabilities or just not being wanted. Are you and your ilk stepping in and picking up the pieces? Got a big house have you?

and I'll answer yours...

Aborting a deformed fetus is not the same as murdering a newborn child. That is what you asking me right? If I would have had him murdered? No. I would have had an abortion because in this country I have the freedom to do that.

bumbleymummy · 05/04/2014 19:39

Alis, but people like you never change your opinion either. Does that make you 'rigidly narrow minded' as well?

"On here, people comment on any post they want to comment on."

Yes, but they are not required to. So you saying that no one else asked about it doesn't really mean much.

I take it you don't believe his family then.

The disabled isn't a stock answer at all actually. As I said earlier, I was surprised to be on a thread with pro-choicers who said the current law was disabilist so it's made me curious about other pro-choicers' views on it. Needles to say, not many on this thread share their opinion!

SolidGoldBrass · 05/04/2014 19:41

All anti-abortion activists are disgusting, stupid, woman-hating scum. It's not about 'babies', it's about controlling women and designating them walking incubators.

I've never heard any anti-choice activist have anything to say about domestic violence, rape, poverty, underfunded maternity care leading to maternal and foetal death.... it's all about punishing women for wanting bodily autonomy.

Alisvolatpropiis · 05/04/2014 19:43

I think the difference between my opinion and yours bumble is that I would never tell a woman that she should or should not have an abortion...you will tell her she shouldn't though and list fatuous reasons why, including "because god says so".

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 05/04/2014 19:44

Word to SGB.

LoonvanBoon · 05/04/2014 19:45

Bum, you are free to post what you want. But I do think the way you phrased those questions to African is offensive.

S/he has already said that his/her aunt was not allowed to have an abortion, but you're persisting in suggesting that she might not have wanted one - surely African knows more about his/her own family situation than you do? So it's a bit offensive that you refuse to acknowledge someone else's understanding of a situation close to them.

It's also offensive that you keep persisting in grouping all disabled people together (by asking posters "Do you think that about all disabled people?") when the only comments about disability from other posters are about very specific situations, where it may well be possible to make a reasonable assessment about someone's quality of life, or lack thereof.

So, for instance, African commented only on his /her cousin's quality of life. Others have questioned the quality of life that could be enjoyed by a baby with anencephaly. And yet you keep implying that these posters hold negative attitudes towards everyone with disabilities, when it should be too obvious to need pointing out that disabilities cover an extraordinarily wide spectrum.

I don't think it's offensive to state your views about abortion; but aggressively phrased questions implying disablism on the part of those who disagree with you is a bit offensive, yes.

Dawndonnaagain · 05/04/2014 19:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SuburbanRhonda · 05/04/2014 19:47

I have been very restrained with you up till now, bum.

I have tried to appeal to your sense of humour to get you to stop taking yourself (not this topic) so seriously.

I have been polite and caved in to your constant badgering to answer your question, even though you never returned the favour.

But you've gone too far with your "I take it you don't believe his family then".

That is absolutely not what I said and you know it. You are sanctimonious and smug and you are doing your personal crusade no end of damage with your deeply offensive posts.

thebody · 05/04/2014 19:49

Solid brilliant as usual, Dawn and Aligreat posts.

Baby just sending hugs as that's all I can do.

Bum you are entitled to your opinion and wish you would stop calling people disablist. It's so offensive and silly.

AfricanExport · 05/04/2014 19:57

Bumble

Nobody really cares about your opinion per say. You are welcome to it. You can be as blinkered and as narrow minded as you wish.

The problem comes in when you try and force your skewed values on the rest of a society.

You have no right to judge others for their actions. It is not your place. If there is a god, which I seriously doubt, each and every one of us will face our judgement for our 'sins' one day.

It is simply not yours, or anybody else's place, to judge.

btw.. I have never had an abortion. I had a choice and gave my baby up for adoption. That does not mean that others should not have the right to choose.

thebody · 05/04/2014 20:06

^^ agree African and a brave post.

CaptChaos · 05/04/2014 20:16

My apologies for not getting back to you. Let me clear something up.

ANY line of thought which is seeking to tell women what they have to have in their uterus is, by it's very nature, misogynistic and patriarchal. Whether that be religious dogma or any other dogma.

If you don't believe that women have the right to decide for themselves what happens to the contents of their uterus, at any stage of gestation, then, yes, you are being inherently either

(a) misogynistic
(b) paternalistic
or
(c) patriarchal

Whether a woman is raped or had great consensual sex with the man/men of her choice is immaterial, and yet another way that anti-choice types split women into good/deserving women, who are pregnant and yet unsullied and bad/naughty women, who deserve all they get. So women have all the consequences of pregnancy with none of the choice.

You are correct in saying that swearing doesn't strengthen my argument, which would be relevant if I thought it might. I didn't. I thought it might convey my anger over your belief that people like you have any right to tell anyone what they can and can't do with their bodies.

I am completely rational, by the way, I find your assertion that no one who believes that a woman has the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy right up until term is irrational offensive. But then, I find a lot of your views, and the way you express them, offensive.

bumbleymummy · 05/04/2014 20:26

HopAlong, but they may be lobbying for change as well as protesting.

Dawn, only because you disagree with my opinions.

African, why are you asking me that? Because you think your cousin isn't alive? His quality of life may not be great but he is still alive and I think he has a right not to be killed, just like everyone else.

b) I don't judge someone's worth on whether or not they are healthy or wanted. As mentioned earlier, there are charities that help to 'pick up the pieces' and I'm more than happy to support them.

I'm not asking if you would have him murdered (unless you are saying euthanasia = murder)

CaptChaos · 05/04/2014 20:28

Oh, and feel free to post something vile and head tilty again. I'm off out again.

The lives we wicked pro-women's lifers lead!

thebody · 05/04/2014 20:32

Yes yes yes Capt spot on post.

Menolly · 05/04/2014 20:35

bumbley, the reason people are going on about Catholics is that the vigil is a Catholic vigil being organised by Helpers of God's Precious Infants, which is a Catholic group, founded by a Catholic priest.

OP posts:
twofingerstoGideon · 05/04/2014 20:39

'Helpers of God's Precious Infants', eh?
God isn't doing a very good job, is he? Allowing all these women to get pregnant and then giving them the free will to chose a termination.

bumbleymummy · 05/04/2014 20:40

Ali, "you will tell her she shouldn't though and list fatuous reasons why, including "because god says so".

Where have I mentioned God? Are you jumping to conclusions? Assuming that anyone who objects to abortion is religious and/or that the reason they object to it is because their church tells them to? You're very wrong.

Loonvan, if you think I was offensive, what do you think about SGB's comment? "All anti-abortion activists are disgusting, stupid, woman-hating scum"

Suburban, that may not be what you said but it was implied. If you did not intend to imply that then I will apologise for jumping to that conclusion. I have no personal crusade by the way and I don't particularly need you to humour me or be restrained either.

Capt, I have a problem with women deciding what to do with the foetus' body. I also stand by my opinion that it is irrational to think that a baby born at 37 weeks has a right to life but one who still happens to be inside the mother does not - I find that opinion 'offensive'. (and ridiculous tbh) I don't think anyone holding that view is doing the pro-choice movement any favours. Very few people agree with you (thankfully).

thebody · 05/04/2014 20:41

Capt your point to good and bad pregnant women brings to mind the dreadful comments brought to this thread courtesy of sirzy who shared the comment to her that a raped woman should carry the child to shame the rapist.

As sirzy pointed out disgraceful crap.

TheBabyFacedAssassin · 05/04/2014 20:52

Bumbley - words fail me. My posts have been directed at you and I guess I should have been blunt. I'll be blunt now though, you are totally full of shit. And FYI my baby doesn't have anencephaly. And I have NEVER said I am happy to go on with this pregnancy, because of people with beliefs such as yours I HAVE NO FUCKING CHOICE. A point which you have glossed over and over and over.

I'm out, I can't read this shit anymore. So much sense on this thread but you bumbley and your ignorant, ridiculous views have incensed me.

merrymouse · 05/04/2014 20:52

It's one thing to live in a democracy, using your vote to influence laws and expressing your opinion to influence policy makers. It's quite another to interfere with a private individual's right to act within the law.

LoonvanBoon · 05/04/2014 20:53

Bumbley, for pity's sake, it's you who keeps saying you haven't said anything remotely offensive - just expressed your views - so I gave my opinion about the aspects of your posts that I thought were offensive.

What has SGB's statement got to do with that? You're sounding like my boys now - "But s/he was doing it too!".

Dawndonnaagain · 05/04/2014 20:53

Dawn, only because you disagree with my opinions.

No sweetie, it really is offensive. It's offensive to all women, the disagreeing with you bit is irrelavant.

AfricanExport · 05/04/2014 20:55

His quality of life is non existent. It's not 'not great'. Not great would be something completely different. and I ask because I want to know. Just like you want to know if I'm disablist... which I'm not. Have you ever seen a seriously mentally disabled child? Or are you speaking about things you have never ever experienced?

So basically you are prepared to throw a negligible amount of money into a bucket and hope someone else picks up the pieces. You BIG person you!

lol. and you think you are very clever don't you? I am not a fool. That was a lose lose question. If I had said euthanasia you would have said that's akin to murder anyway.