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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

999 replies

Menolly · 03/04/2014 00:08

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

OP posts:
SuburbanRhonda · 05/04/2014 18:56

No, I think it's just you who made that quantum leap from what I posted, bum. No one else commented.

And I think it's equally strange that when I posted information about his quality of life that would, IMO, be important to know if you were considering aborting a foetus with anencephaly, you claim I was suggesting it was ok to kill children who become disabled after birth. Confused

Just out of interest, how would a child with only a brain stem show a conscious response, rather than an instinctual one? Scientifically speaking, that is.

Birdinthebush · 05/04/2014 18:56

Baby , I have just read your latest post and it's brought me to tears. I know it won't help but I want you to know I will be thinking of you in the coming weeks x x

twofingerstoGideon · 05/04/2014 19:04

Me too, Baby Thanks

bumbleymummy · 05/04/2014 19:05

African, your aunt decided not to have an abortion. Shouldn't you be supporting her choice? Do you have similar opinions about all disabled people? That they shouldn't have been born? Do you think your cousin should be euthanised?

the body,

"A pregnant woman has total and absolute rights over her body until she pushes out a baby."

Not in the UK. Only until 24 weeks.(except for medical reasons)

AfricanExport · 05/04/2014 19:08

My aunt never had a choice to have a abortion. Who said she had a choice? She didn't have a choice because people like you had made abortions illegal in my home country.

Alisvolatpropiis · 05/04/2014 19:08

bumble

Stop trying to make this about people being disabilist. It is not aiding your argument at all and makes you look stupid.

HTH

JanineStHubbins · 05/04/2014 19:09

I'm disgusted but not surprised by bumbley's ignoring of Baby's heartrending posts.

I'm another person who thinks that a woman should have absolute autonomy over her body, up to 38/39/40 weeks of pregnancy. And I'm neither lying nor irrational.

AfricanExport · 05/04/2014 19:10

As it happens I do actually support euthanasia Shock . However that is not what this discussion is about. this discussion is about a womans right to make her own choice without the self righteous opinions of others getting in the way.

TheBabyFacedAssassin · 05/04/2014 19:10

Thank you bird and two fingers.

bumbleymummy · 05/04/2014 19:12

Surburban - you directly replied to my post. Why would anyone else have commented? I didn't say that you were suggesting it was ok to to kill disabled children. I asked you a question.

"Just out of interest, how would a child with only a brain stem show a conscious response, rather than an instinctual one? "

I wondered that too but Nikolas' family said that he expressed emotion. I think the fact that he survived at all completely baffled scientists.

AfricanExport · 05/04/2014 19:15

Babyface
I am so sorry. I wish you courage and we can only how that one day people will understand the impact this has on mothers like you. I do not understand why an unborn child takes precedence over the mental wellbeing of the mother.

pommedeterre · 05/04/2014 19:17

Disgraceful, disgusting behaviour.

How kind religion is.

Want to protest against the abortion law? Protest at parliament.

Want to upset vulnerable women? Protest at the clinic.

Fuckwits.

AfricanExport · 05/04/2014 19:19
  • hope

sorry

bumbleymummy · 05/04/2014 19:22

Alis, be dismissive if you like. It won't change my opinion.

I'm not ignoring Baby's posts any more than I am ignoring other people's posts that aren't directed at me. I'm replying to direct questions that people are asking me. Baby's situation is awful and I already expressed sympathy for it on a previous thread. She did say that she actually wanted to go through with the pregnancy though so that people could learn more about anencephaly which I think is very courageous of her.

African, do you know that she would have chosen to have an abortion? If she was very religious herself then she may not have wanted to anyway. I didn't ask if you believed in euthanasia - I asked if you think your cousin should be euthanised because you don't think much of his quality of life. Do you think that of all disabled people?

Dawndonnaagain · 05/04/2014 19:22

Dawn asked me not to post because I was pro-life. I'm glad that you disagree with her.
Wrong.

Offensive posts are not allowed on mumsnet so yes I agree with Dawn

Dawndonnaagain · 05/04/2014 19:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Alisvolatpropiis · 05/04/2014 19:25

No I know, people like you never do change their opinions bumble. A pity that some people are so rigidly narrow minded.

pommedeterre · 05/04/2014 19:26

A theoretical hurt about theoretical babies is not the same as people actually going through the difficult decision that abortion is. At all. Bizarre to suggest it quite frankly.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 05/04/2014 19:26

Bumble - you are completely missing the point. Baby should not be in this position. Do you not agree that what is happening to her is cruel and inhumane?

SuburbanRhonda · 05/04/2014 19:27

On here, people comment on any post they want to comment on.

Why would you ask if I thought it was ok to kill disabled children unless you thought there was at least a 50% chance I would say I did?

Yes, I know his family said he expressed emotion. I just wondered how this could be possible scientifically.

LoonvanBoon · 05/04/2014 19:27

Baby, I've only just gone back and read the posts about your situation. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. Flowers

pommedeterre · 05/04/2014 19:30

Also, this explaining of reasons for abortions? Not so good. There are a million reasons why a woman would want to end a pregnancy and she should not have to justify herself.

SuburbanRhonda · 05/04/2014 19:31

Glad to see it's not just me getting the "Do you think this of all disabled people?" treatment from bum

Actually, I'm not glad. Is that your stock answer, bum And if so, do you think MN might be kind enough to make you an apron saying it, in case you miss anyone out?

bumbleymummy · 05/04/2014 19:33

Dawndonna, there is nothing offensive in my posts. My opinion is just different to yours.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 05/04/2014 19:33

If you are so anti abortion, there are dozens of of constructive things you can do to help them stop happening; lobbying for changes that mean women wont find themselves in circumstances where they need one, as often, lobbying for government
to change abortion legislation (if that floats your your boat). Standing outside a clinic trying to make women feel like shit is not about ending abortions, it's about patting yourself on the back. It's smug, it's sanctimonious and it's downright cuntish behavior.