To tell Dh it is not ok to leave 10yr old ds and 6 yr old dd alone in the house?

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Dh is making me feel that I'm making a mountain out of a molehill but I came back from work today (later than usual as had a meeting) to find Dh in the car on the drive about to take ds2 to beavers.

He was going to leave ds1 and dd1 in the house while he dropped ds2 off! They are only 10 and 6.

Dh says they were both settled watching tv and he would only have been gone for 5mins.

However I am appalled and feel shocked that he has considered doing this. I'm really upset and feel cross but can't be cross as Dh is making out that I'm over reacting.

Am I?

Yes Pag we are definitely disagreeing. You see I do worry a bit about my 17 year old driving, but I rationalise it by knowing that the law supports 17 year olds driving, and well, doing most things really. It is perfectly acceptable to anyone that a 17 year old drives. You would be quite weird to think it wasn't acceptable. So I worry about it marginally, give him all the help and advice I can, then let him go off driving because it's appropriate for his age.

Leaving a 6 year old home alone, not so appropriate, in my eyes, my DH's eyes, social services eyes etc.

Gawd, I've been on this thread too long, going round in circles saying the same thing, I'll go off and find another thread now to annoy people

Bowlers - I never said I would leave a six year old alone so I don't know how to respond

But I would , and have , with a very sensible ten year old,

5 mins, telly on, no problem. I would do it.

It's a bit borderline but I think it would probably be OK if he told a neighbour, and also told the kids where to go if there was a problem, and not to answer the door to people they didn't know.

Dinosaurs I knew they were going to the Head (they told me) so I went to him myself.
He agreed that DS was at minimal risk, and that as his parent I should decide if he was able to walk home not other parents.
He told the secretary that I was to be phoned if DS was absent from school and I had not rung informing them before 9, so there was no chance that DS could be missing unnoticed for 6 hours.
A letter was sent out to all parents asking them all to remind children of their travel arrangements and encouraging them to ring school ASAP if they were going to be late.

The parents moved on to the new cause, a petition to make it the teachers responsibility to ensure junior pupils wear coats at break times.

Personally I don't think a 17year old should be driving, too many accidents and the insurance companies seem to support that view even if the law doesn't.... leaving dcs in the house alone I view as much safer.

Shimmy

Fortunately ds1 had some lessons but headed off to uni without passing or having a car so he will be nearly 21 by the time he starts

Bowlersarm Wed 26-Mar-14 14:23:03
"You are responsible for yourself, Cory, you are an adult. It is acceptable that adults chose to be on their own for periods of time. It is also you, the adult, who is responsible for whether a child will be left alone. Not the child, itself."

And the way I look at it it is my responsibility to ensure that my children are gradually trained, step by step, to assume more responsibility as they become older. As they grow older they are also more and more part of the decision making process surrounding this, as that too is part of the training.

My 13yo does choose to be on his own for several hours from time to time and is allowed to do so. He doesn't always get to choose- if it is a question of visiting grandma in the nursing home on Mother's Day he is told in no uncertain terms that there is only one choice. But when dh and I went to Sheffield for the day last Sunday he was given a choice of whether to come or not. When he was 10 I would have given him a choice of coming with me to the shops or staying at home. When he was 3 he wouldn't have had a choice at all. It's a gradual thing.

I am very aware that in a few years time he will be making more on-the-hoof decisions about his life because I won't be there to do it, so I like to give him the opportunity to practise those decision skills when at all possible. It's not about choosing the easy option for me; it's about part of a learning process. Once they get to a certain age, taking them with you is much less hard work than training them to cope on their own.

I know how many serious accidents and deaths we had around our small village with teenagers and they were driving legally - my own family included ....very sad, I will be discouraging my dcs from getting into cars with teenagers at the wheel. Very few cases - none actually! of children coming to serious harm being left alone for 10 mins and that is going back to the day when we were all a bit less anxious.

We need to get a grip on what real risk is - something being legal doesn't make it risk free, when did we start allowing the Government to make decisions about the daily parenting of our children?

Absolutely cory! And every step we take down the road of independence, I worry and I worry but my anxiety is not a good reason to stop them growing and maturing, it's my issue and I don't share it with them, it's part of the separation between parent and child that is meant to happen and slowly I get used to every new step because rationally I know they are ready for it, it takes my emotional side a little while to catch up!

YAB slightly U, I can't see the issue for 5 mins to be honest but it is a judgement call. Highly unlikely anything is going to go wrong.

10 OK, 6 not OK.

Ploppy - point well made.

My DM was one who had the ridiculous notion that it was illegal to leave under 14's in the house alone. Consequently, she sent my sister and I out to the park and locked us OUT of the house when she was going shopping or giving lifts to my baby brother etc until we were 14 when we were finally allowed to stay in the nice warm safe house. We often sat on the doorstep in the pouring rain waiting for her to come home (no mobile phones back then). Go figure.

Bowlersarm I'm not going from one extreme to the other at all. I'm simply saying that I think your comments that I pick and choose which children I look after and when for an easy life, are wrong.

You saying that I have to look after all of my children all of the time even when I ascertain that it would be perfectly safe to leave them for a few minutes. I don't agree with that, and neither do you if your 'my 12 year old can meet friends in town' comment is true.

If DH suddenly decided to leave our kids alone while he popped out (ours are 6 and 3 so bit different to the op), should I just stand back and go 'Oh well, he's their father, I obviously can't question him, he's entitled to make the decision'?

Of course you should, that is neglect! It is nothing like OP where a 10 yr old and a 6 yr old are left for 5 minutes , childcare doesn't remain static and you treat them differently as they get older. He is entitled to make that decision when they are older.If my DH doesn't like my decisions he will have to be home in time to stay with them-not telling me what to do when he isn't there!

I never understand the fear of SS, if mine questioned my risk assessment of leaving my children alone I should tell them exactly what I thought and that I should be doing it again! I would also be asking questions about why they were wasting time with me when they had a heavy workload of children who need to be protected. The idea that they would take my children away because I left them in front of the television, with rules, emergency procedures- and they were happy, for 5 minutes is ludicrous!

My 6 year old goes to the shop and plays outside on his own, I would merrily leave the 8 and 6 year old on their own for up to 15 minutes. With a don't touch the oven or toaster, don't open the door reminder.

In the very unlikely event that they get seriously hurt and if they did they know how to get a neighbour and phone 999.

I do think we are bringing up a nation of incompetents sometimes. At 6 I walked to school on my own, played outside all the time, went to the park with my big sister (aged 9), camped in the garden, used a whittling knife...

Delphin you are missing my point.

The post I was replying to suggested that the op is treating her childrens dad as a babysitter and, as their father, she had no right whatsoever to question him.

That is what I dispute, I just used an example. If I saw DH doing sonething that I disagreed with/found unacceptable, I wouldn't just stay quiet about it because he's the dad and can do whatever the hell he likes.

Likewise, if I did sonething with the dc that DH found unacceptable, it would be perfectly reasonable of him to call me on it.

Of course you can question him, she has. He thinks it reasonable and she is making a mountain out of a molehill. I agree with him. If my DH insists on making mountains out of molehills then he will need to be home to do it his way. I shall do it my way.

Great post Cory, said it all. That is exactly how I feel, and I object to being called a lazy parent just because I have a plan (of sorts) for gently leading my children down the path of independence.
My DH's cousins both live at home at the ages of 38 and 41... shudder! It's entirely down to their overprotective parents too. I'm not saying that anyone else's children will do this btw, I'm just pointing out that it does happen and it's definitely affected (effected?) my parenting style :)

Also wanted to say, bloody hell Notso, the parents at your school sound awful, don't they have anything better to do?
We live close to school too, although I can't see it, and my two started walking to school by themselves in September. They were 8 & just turned 7. They also pick up another just turned 7 year old on the way.

10 yr would be fine but 6 is way too young to be unsupervised. Its not fair to put the responsibility onto another child should there be an emergency.

Our school only releases year 6 children without an adult after school so age 10 is when they believe they are mature enough to be left alone and given their experience it seems a good place to start.

Ilovexmastime there is an unfortunate group of well meaning but over protective parents in DS1's year. Only 2 children from his class of 30 are allowed to go on the residential trip this year. The majority of the parents feel their child will be unsafe on the trip.
HappyMumOfOne that would really annoy me to be honest.

I am aghast at the children not going on a school residential.
I would not send my child to that school HappyMumofOne , I would expect them to come out of school without an adult in year 3 and I would be putting the cat among the pigeons and refusing to treat them like a parcel! I lived a few doors from the school and they walked home alone.
The real issue is that her DH thinks it reasonable and he is the one doing it. I would not have my DH dictating what I did when he wasn't there! I am an adult and I use my judgement, I am a responsible parent and I don't take instruction from a 'higher power'. If OP doesn't like it she needs to be at home for the Beaver run, otherwise she leaves it to him. I expect that he is a responsible parent.

Schools, like parents, should be giving children more independence as they get older. A 7yr old is quite able to manage to go back into the school office if no one has turned up to meet them. Generally junior children are just allowed out at the end of the day.

I am very heartened that in my rural area I see junior aged children walking to and from school without adults.