To tell Dh it is not ok to leave 10yr old ds and 6 yr old dd alone in the house?

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Dh is making me feel that I'm making a mountain out of a molehill but I came back from work today (later than usual as had a meeting) to find Dh in the car on the drive about to take ds2 to beavers.

He was going to leave ds1 and dd1 in the house while he dropped ds2 off! They are only 10 and 6.

Dh says they were both settled watching tv and he would only have been gone for 5mins.

However I am appalled and feel shocked that he has considered doing this. I'm really upset and feel cross but can't be cross as Dh is making out that I'm over reacting.

Am I?

My dh left my 8.10yo alone for about 5-10 mins with my 6.6yo at the weekend while I was away, to cycle to the baker's. They were fine with it but I was Not Happy. I wouldn't have had a problem with him leaving the 8.10yo, but think he is too young to be responsible for a younger child.

Dh is German and we live in Germany, and people really are much more relaxed/lax about things like this here. I would guess a good proportion of dc1's classmates have been walking to and from school alone since 6 or 7. I still walk him - there are some roads to cross and he is so dreamy he would be sure to be run over the first time I let him go.

If a 10 year old being left with a 6 year old for 5 minutes - without there being any other issues or concerns - drew the interest/concern of the nspcc or social services, I would think that someone somewhere needed to be more gainfully employed.

My DD is 11 and at 10 was perfectly capeable of walking into town alone,walking to school alone and has been left here with her sibling who has asd.

The interesting thing is, if you study the accident and mortality figures for somewhere like Scandinavia there is nothing that suggests that their children come to any greater harm from their laxer attitude. They don't seem to have more accidents, they don't seem to die more. Perhaps they just grow up less dreamy?

I have certainly noticed with ds that, though he is a total woolly-head at school where teachers will look after him and make sure he gets where he's supposed to, if I leave him at home for the day he will miraculously manage to feed himself without burning the place down. Interesting.

I agree with mummypolls and I'm
Actually quite surprised how
Many people think OP is over reacting! It is much easier to tell them to run to the car quickly than coming home
To an accident and feeling incredibly guilty. It doesn't matter how long they are left for anything could happen.

I'm with you OP and I would tell my DH to never ever
Do it again!!

I would never ever make parenting decisions based on how awful I would feel if something bad happened.

That's pretty self absorbed IMHO.

RedAndChecker, do you really mean never, ever?

The older child is 10, so will presumably be in secondary in 2 years time. Once there, a fairly high level of indepence will be expected of him. Most children make their own way to and from school, they are usually allowed out shopping or to the cinema on their own, and a child who can't handle that level of independence may end up socially isolated. By age 13 the school will expect them to manage without a teacher for shorter periods e.g. on a field trip (ds went to Belgium last term: they were let loose in the town centre for an hour).

Don't you think a better plan would be for the OP to say to her dp, "Well I don't think this was a good way to do it and we should both discuss things first. But I realise we do need to start talking about how we can prepare dc1 for independence. Let's do it gradually and start with him on his own, not the younger sibling".

Apart from Scandinavia, kids in the UK never came to much harm either.

Either I grew up in a parallel universe or kids are so much more delicate and irresponsible... I was left home alone, or out playing, with my little sister on a regular basis. I would have been about 6 or 7 and she would have been about 4. We may have done some daft things but nothing dangerous, as we were also brought up 'not to touch'.

When I was 11 I'd cook sausage and mash and a cake once a month, when mum and dad went out for the Big Shop. We hated being dragged around the, then new, supermarkets, and parents could have a pint in the nearby pub before coming home - often their only 'them' time.

I don't think many of my friends grew up very differently, nor any of my cousins.

It also seems odd that anyone would think it unreasonable to leave an older sibling in charge.

RedAndChecker; all statistics suggest that one of the most dangerous things you can do to your child is take them out in your car. That is how many children die in this country. Remarkably few die whilst sedately watching television in their own home.

How bad would the OP's dh feel if he had taken them in the car and there had been a fatal car crash? How could he ever live with himself?

If you are looking purely at doing the safest thing, then I would suggest that taking a toddler with you is definitely far safer than leaving them at home because a toddler's capacity of getting into trouble unsupervised at home is infinite. By age 6-7 I would believe the odds are more or less even. By age 10 I reckon home is almost certainly the safer alternative. And I really don't know why I ever let my 17yo into the car at all: she'd be far safer at home. Irresponsible parent that I am.

You're over-reacting. It's only 5 mins and they were sat in front of the telly. In plenty of other countries 6 year olds, let alone 10 year olds, walk to school on their own, which is much more dangerous than sitting at home for 5 mins! Unless they are obsessed with matches or something, and likely to seize the opportunity as soon as left alone.

It is much easier to tell them to run to the car quickly than coming home
To an accident and feeling incredibly guilty.

It's much easier to do nothing than get them into the car.

It's much more likely that they would be in an accident in the car than at home, leaving you feeling incredibly guilty for putting them in the car.

Guilt is an interesting thing, isn't it?

When a car ran into the childminder's car nobody expected me to feel guilty for exposing dd to this risk (except my car-hating mother, and she is hardly representative).

Yet I knew the statistics, I had taken a deliberate risk for my own convenience.

Dd was old enough to have been safer walking to school and looking after herself.

But if that had resulted in an accident everybody would have expected me to feel guilty.

Funny, isn't it?

Sorry, I have been slandering my mother here. She didn't blame me, I never told her about it

I'm not basing it on how bad I would feel admittedly that was worded wrong!! I just wouldn't want anything happening to them. When they are older yes but at age 10, being responsible for a younger sibling, no I wouldn't.

I don't think it would make them socially isolated!! At 11 and 8 me and my brother flew 8 hours on a plane by ourselves but my mother knew we were safe with the crew. I just wouldn't feel comfortable leaving primary aged children home alone, I'm aware I'm in the minority but it's not something that sits comfortably with me and I understand why the OP was feeling this way.

I've had someone go into the back of me with DS in the car - I never once thought 'I should have left him at home alone instead'

How would you feel if there was a car accident though? Doesn't the thing about not wanting anything to happen to them apply there? Or do people somehow believe that their mere presence will protect their children in a car crash?

I did this with DD and DS1 at exactly the same ages and DH wasn't happy.

DS2 was a newborn and was screaming, it was pouring with rain and we needed milk. I took DS2 in the pram to the corner shop hoping he would fall asleep and left the older two watching TV.
DH came home while I was at the shop and was really annoyed when I got back.
Both DC were allowed to walk to the shop by themselves at that point and I didn't and still don't see the difference.

Sorry, cross-posted.

But why do you think you never once thought that RedAndChecker? Is it just because you are so used to cars?

Because the statistics seem pretty clear on the subject: this is one of the major cause of serious accidents for children.

I grew up in a non-driving family, and I have to admit when dd's CM had her accident I did feel a vague twinge of guilt that I had put dd in this situation of unnecessary risk.

Otoh I am used to the idea of 10yos as sensible people who are used to looking after siblings, cooking and baking and generally handling things fairly efficiently. (Swedish childhood)

Also - appalled and shocked? That's an amazingly strong reaction. If you're appalled and shocked where it is 5 mins for a 10 and 6 year old, at which stage will you become happy and relaxed for your kids to spend a couple of hours on their own while you do the shopping? Maybe at 15 and 11? It's going to be a long haul.

RedandChecker, your risk assessment is totally irrational. There's no advantage in dragging children out on tiny errands once they're into the age of reason.

Re the NSPCC case study of the 10 yr old phoning the NSPCC because the younger sibling wouldn't stop crying - really?!

Why on earth would it even occur to a 10 yr old to phone the NSPCC, let alone find their number? Surely their instinct would be to phone a parent/relative or call on a neighbour?

I think there may have been some dramatic license used in that case study, or there was a lot more to it.

When I leave my older two DD is not in charge, they are both responsible for themselves.
I make a point of saying this to both of them so DD doesn't get power crazy like I did with DSIS.
I can't live by what ifs or we would never do anything.

How do you decide when to leave your children alone, RedandChecker?

6 is the age of reason? I completely disagree.
What do you mean by long haul? I was prepared
For the 'long haul' when I decided to have children

I guess because when we had the accident I was able to get DS out of the car quickly and call the ambulance and comfort him and manage his head injury. If an accident happened when I want around, I wouldn't be able to comfort, manage and do what was necessary that a panicked child couldn't do. I don't think my presence prevents accidents of course not, but it means I'm right there to do something about it quickly.

I would never ever make parenting decisions based on how awful I would feel if something bad happened

Pagwatch - that's about the opposite to how I feel then!

I have always made age related decisions based on that very premise. In this case I wouldn't have left my 10 year old in charge of my 6 year old. I feel it's too young. If anything untoward happened to the 6 year old, falling down the stairs and breaking his neck (or whatever) that would have been my fault for leaving them. I would have to face my husband, social services, and my guilty conscience for making that decision. I would carry that guilt forever. Along with the sorrow and devastation.

If I had left my, say 13 year old with my 10 year old, and my 10 year old fell down the stairs and broke his neck (or whatever), then although devastating and life changing for me, I wouldn't have the burden of the guilt to carry round in addition because they are were an appropriate age to be left home alone. It wouldn't have been my fault.

Of course accidents generally don't happen, in the countless times children are left. But the essential thing to me, if anything happened, would be to be able to look back and think 'of course if I knew what had happened was going to happen I wouldn't have left them. But it was the right thing to do at the time. It wasn't lazy parenting. It was a sensible decision'. If there was any doubt about that, and my having a clear conscience, I wouldn't let them do it (whatever the 'controversial' thing is)

I know I've posted this before but whether your DC is 4 or 10, please make sure they know 999. If you can, get them to use a landline so the address comes up if they can't remember it
We've dealt with very young children and been able to get the address, children are usually very calm. So anyway please drill 999 from a (younger than you think) age!