to think the mental impact of divorce on children is severely underestimated?

[InsanityandBeyond]

Contentious topic .

DC often get an absolutely shit deal when marriages break up and often have to accept their separated parents embarking on new relationships and having to be part of a 'blended' family with DCs from the stepmother/father added into the mix.

Some step/parents that complain about finding these DC hard work and their behaviour difficult to deal with. Not exactly rocket science that DC will be disturbed by having to share living space, and time with their parents, with people they are not related to and not having the security of living with, and focused attention of, both parents which is their birthright.

A lot of marriages break up way too easily these days as the parents want to be 'happy' or have 'fallen out of love', 'want a newer model' etc, etc with the DC dragged along for the ride with no choice in the matter.

In terms of abusive relationships, it could be argued that you should know your partner and their background well before bringing children into the equation which seems to be a very controversial view .

Is it really impossible for adults to put their 'happiness' and new relationships, which would have an impact on their DC, on hold until their children are grown up?

The damage is often played out when they become adults as children will accept almost anything from their parents as a survival mechanism until they are old enough to question it. It is thought that DC are resilient and will get over it but I think that is a fallacy self absorbed parents tell themselves to make themselves feel better.

My 17 year old DD is the only person on her college course whose parents are still together. I find that shocking and really sad.

AIBU in thinking that this is a ticking time bomb in an explosion of mental health issues in the next generation and the implications of divorce/separation on children's mental health should be much more ingrained in the morality of society?

tbh, I have always thought the 'ridiculous' "ltb" are people joking.

oh, he flipped the eggs when you like them 'sunny side up' ? LTB!

So when I read a LTB over something trivial, I always assume they don't actually mean LTB.

Most people do actually advocate sitting down and talking. That's what I notice in threads I read. When you read, you often find the person has done that and done that and done that and been met with total indifference.

Every situation is different and relationships are way too complicated to make such a sweeping statement OP. Certainly there are some who get married with very high expectations of life to be like a hello magazine and struggle to keep it together when things get tough. There is an element of the throwaway society these days where relationships are not as sacred as they once were but it is much more damaging for children to live in an unhappy home.

DHs parents divorced when he was a teenager and its not them splitting up that has affected him its the fact that his parents are not on speaking terms. The logistics of family events are a nightmare so much so that we married abroad with no family present just to avoid the dramas of them having to be in the same room.

Shakin did I touch a nerve? That was not intentional so I am sorry and I will ignore your personal insult.

I think that dealing with the divorce of my own parents, the death of a child, bankruptcy, homelessness, and my own mental health issues, that I can see very well what goes on in the 'real' world but thanks anyway. Maybe that is why I am a bit of a 'deep thinker' about issues like this.

Obviously not all mental health issues can be attributed to parental break up. I don't think I said that at anywhere but I do believe most if not all are firmly rooted in childhood.

I was not differentiating between mothers or fathers and domestic violence (which I have witnessed) is a separate issue. My issue is with parents who put their own happiness above their children's which seem to happen a lot.

I am just saying the examples of people saying leave the bastard are rediculous.

Now you are just being obvious. Pisstaker

My parent chose a new romance over caring for her children and left home while i was on a school trip, she claims that she couldn't live with my fathers mental health issues (but happy to leave her children to live with them) it harmed me and my sister. Fact. 25 years later my sister still has many issues, no friends and is on verge of a relapse of an eating disorder.

However I would hope that most people have more of a conscience than my DM and try to put children's best interests first.

OP I disagree with the basic tenet of your post; I do not thnk people should remain in unhappy marriages. However I do think some people in perfectly good marriages sbbotage them through infidelity etc I also think a lot of couples really make a hash of the actual arrangements. I don't have much time for thise folk.

There was a post where someone spoke about finding texts / emails. And the majority of the response was LTB. When she same to update and decided to
Work on it there were comments such as 'oh great another forgiven cheater'

That is unfair I think It takes a strong person to try and help their partner with obvious issues and work through what happened in the relationship to cause this and work with each other to make things better. I don't think this is
Something that should make women feel ashamed it is admirable. These people have families and we are all human, mistakes are mistakes but when you have DCs you work through them then you can decide whether it has worked or not.

I was also not advocating people stay in 'unhappy' marriages either although let's face it, we can't be happy all the time. It is a relatively fleeting emotion. We seem to have forgotten that as a society on the whole.

This is a difficult subject for anyone involved in an unhappy marriage.
My parents stayed together until my younger sister reached her 16th birthday. They ended up hating each other. We had to live in a very unhappy household. But when they split up they hated each other even more. I didn't go to my graduation because I would have only been able to invite 1 of them under the circumstances and then I would have hurt the other parent by not inviting them. My wedding day was so stressful as it was the first time they had seen each other in a few years - it affected the way I had to plan the day and the arrangements.
My brother and sister have both chose not to marry because of the effect my parents' marriage had on them.
I read an article about a 'celeb' the other the day where he was talking about celebrating his DD's 18th birthday and various other events and going on about the 'whole family' being there - and then included his girlfriend's name, his parents etc......but no mention of his DD's mother and I though this incredibly sad and it did bring back bad memories for me.

children don't live in a bubble - you have fallen out of love with your DH lots of times - i bet your kids picked up on this

Miserable parents locked together in a marriage one or neither of them is emotionally invested in is just as damaging to kids - infact maybe worse as it's send the message that it's better to be miserable than to be single and happy.

Of course divorce and separation impact on children but I really doubt that the majority of ALL mental health patients are from 'broken homes'

you are aware i hope OP that a lot of mental illnesses are illnesses - with an organic cause (chemical inbalance etc) - these can happen to anyone

My husband left me for another woman - cock all I could do about that but I know our home was calmer and happier once he left - the months leading up to it where awful for all of us

2 of my children are working with CAMHs - but BOTH where doing so BEFORE the divorce - nothing to do with the divorce at all - one has possible ASD and the other anxiety with possible ASD - I seriously doubt this was caused by their dad leaving

I agree that It is not ideal or right to stay in a very unhappy relationship for years on end which is obviously effecting DC. All I am
Really trying to say is people should try harder when they decide to become a family as most
Don't nowadays. if it doesn't work and the DC are being effected as a result of the unhappiness that it is best to split amicably

InsanityandBeyond Wed 12-Mar-14 10:24:50

"It's all too easy to say that the DC suffer more when the parents are in an unhappy relationship, perhaps if the parents worked on being adults then the DCs would not suffer from being brought up in a 'toxic' atmosphere."
"People who wish their parents had split up but didn't until they were adults, well you don't actually know that this would have been better or how you would coped as a child, do you?"

"I don't think it's particularly damaging for DC to be aware that their parents are not happy with each other from time to time, as long as they are working through it. All DC are bothered about really is that their parents are there for THEM which is only natural."

But surely the people who are saying they wished their parents are split up are saying: "I was bothered, I do feel damaged by having lived in this environment".

Of course they can't know what it would have been like if their parents had divorced.

But I think they are perfectly entitled to speak about what it was like living with unhappy parents. They were there. They have a right to have an opinion.

Am thinking particularly of a friend who grew up expected to pretend not to know about her father's infidelities- never allowed to mention it to him, never allowed to mention it to her mother. She has never managed a successful relationship herself: she simply cannot trust men, she cannot trust what people say because her whole childhood was based on lies. Her parents believed they were there for her and that was all that mattered. But her ability to enjoy family life has been destroyed forever because what she saw was that family life is about lying to the people who trust you. She doesn't see that as "being there for her".

Your OP is very judgemental.
When you say:

"In terms of abusive relationships, it could be argued that you should know your partner and their background well before bringing children into the equation which seems to be a very controversial view."

Sometimes the abuse doesn't start until the woman is pregnant! What is she supposed to do then?

As for:

"Is it really impossible for adults to put their 'happiness' and new relationships, which would have an impact on their DC, on hold until their children are grown up?"

That means that the children would have to grow up in an unhappy home. Divorce can have an impact on children but so can staying together 'for the sake of the children.'

"2 of my children are working with CAMHs - but BOTH where doing so BEFORE the divorce - nothing to do with the divorce at all - one has possible ASD and the other anxiety with possible ASD - I seriously doubt this was caused by their dad leaving"

My DSSs both saw shrinks when they were little, a long time before their parents' separation. Once their parents had separated, they no longer needed to...

My parents stayed together and indeed are still together now- 40 years and counting- but I've still had problems in my own relationships and mental health difficulties.

Equally I've known children of divorced parents who are totally ace at relationships and have no mental Heath issues. Known some where they're barking mad too. I'm not sure there's a correlation.

Maybe that is why I am a bit of a 'deep thinker' about issues like this.

LMFAO.

I am divorced. Sometimes being together and miserable, arguing and constant atmosphere is more damaging to the child than two loving parents, living separately, able to be amicable to each other.

My dad died when I was a child, and my mum never re partnered, as a 25 year old I find this extremely sad that my mum never managed to "get over" my dad dying and last year she passed away to the same awful illness that he was taken by.

I know that my divorce was for all the right reasons, and as to the whole you should know your partner well enough to know if they are going to be abusive before you had kids, same thing can be considered when marrying them, but sometimes other factors are involved, cocaine and alcohol was a major factor in my divorce as was the mental, and physical torture, did these start before I married him, no of course not, people change, events change people, I thought I would honestly spend my life with him and only him, it changed, things don't always turn out the way we planned.

What would be worse for a child, dreading going home cos there is going to be atmosphere and its going to be uncomfortable, mum and dad both being deeply unhappy or going to two individual parents houses who are happy, where they feel welcome and comfortable, and there isn't an atmosphere, whether that be with or without step parents? I am not saying its not hard to adjust and that they don't need help to, what I am saying is that sometimes its just not right to stay together and is more damaging than a divorce

We all carry some kind of emotional baggage from our childhoods, some more, some less. But I have to say, I've yet to meet a person whose parents are divorced, who wouldn't be very deeply affected by the separation one way or another. The resilience of children is often mistaken for coping.

Divorce has an effect on the children and is not ideal.

Staying in an unhappy marriage has an effect on the children and is not ideal.

I tend to think that the first, if handled by reasonable people, is the lesser of two evils. Where there is real damage done, it's because one or both of the parents are not reasonable people, and they would have been damaging to the child in an unhappy marriage as well. People behave how they want to behave, well or badly, whatever circumstances they are in.

We hear a lot about dysfunctional families and situations and much less about successful, happy ones. So we hear a lot about unhappy marriages (just look at the threads on here). And we hear a lot about unhappy break ups. But we hear less about the happy marriages, and the happy break ups (well, you know what I mean, decently managed ones anyway).

A break up between parents doesn't have to mean the end of co-parenting the child. It doesn't have to mean arguments, problems, resentments etc. I know of lots of couples who manage the situation very well and the children don't have any problems from it.

The trouble is OP in unhappy families where parents' marriage or relationship is disintegrating, their DCs often already lack security and focused attention.

I really think that the majority of people think long and hard about splitting up as it impacts on them, their own DCs and to a smaller extent, the wider family. I too wondered why you put hyphens round happy. There is 'selfish dickhead me myself first' happy and 'live without fear with reasonable compatability and shared goals' happy. I'm sure you wouldn't begrudge a responsible parent choosing the latter environment.

I hope I don't offend you but if you're the child whose parents divorced acrimoniously then your views will be coloured by that.

Pages of threads on MN alone where posters agonise over "splitting up the family" in the face of extreme provocation and even abuse. I doubt they think it's an easy step to take.

A charge levelled at the contributors to Relationships or AIBU threads is that they are too quick to yell LTB. I don't flatter myself that anyone seeking advice on this forum will jump to listen or act on anything I say. But if Ithought any one was so drastically self absorbed as to lightly trample their DCs' happiness into the ground by impulsively trashing their marriage and leaping into single parenthood or a new blended family I'd venture to advise caution.

In terms of abusive relationships, it could be argued that you should know your partner and their background well before bringing children into the equation which seems to be a very controversial view

This reads as victim blaming... like you are saying if a woman doesn't know her partners background was abusive before she has kids, it could be her fault if she gets beaten?

Also, abusers don't always follow patterns. They don't necessarily get abusive with all partners. And abuse can start during pregnancy.

Living in an environment where they are constant rows & atmospheres, parents trying to turn you against the other, using you against the other is horrible & isn't always good for the child either.

My mum didn't want me & because of that, my dad was my everything. He left when I was 5 & it broke my heart. But it was better than watching him cry because she was an absolute bitch to him.

I was one of the only children at my school with divorced parents. I was pretty level headed to be honest. Some of those with parents still together were not.

I wish my parents had divorced far earlier, like when I was 9-10 rather than prolong it out ten years later . I may not have a crystal ball, but it doesn't take a psychic to see that things would have been better if they had just owned up to their relationship not working rather than trying to pretend everything was okay, that we just needed a "fresh start" to try to fix things, they wouldn't have been isolated from their support networks that helped them stay away from alcohol, drugs and extremist religions, and they wouldn't have racked so much debts in their repeated moves and addictions. My father was far better when he focused on his work than when he tried to play husband/father, he just wasn't suited no matter how much people wanted him to fit their idea of being an adult. My mother would have had more time with her mother before she died and neither her or I would have felt as guilty about moving away.

My siblings and I wouldn't have been isolated from our networks repeatedly and our neglect and abuse would not have been as underdetected. We would have had other people to go to if we hadn't been forced to play happy family and been isolated from others to protect this damaging image.

Owning up to reality is far better than trying to play a part for others. Some things can be worked through, and some things can't. My partner and I have been married for over a decade and have worked through a lot, but there was never the need or desire to present a particular image of 'grown up' to others that builds a lot of resentment in others that the OP is promoting. That's not acting like an adult, plenty of children can and do do that.

My parents divorced when I was 16 and quite frankly I wish they'd done it a hell of a lot sooner. The mental impact of arguing parents and an awful atmosphere at home was, in my opinion, much worse than having them live happily apart.

This has probably been asked upthread but is a broken home the one before or purely after divorce?

Yanbu. Divorce is a tragic event for children. It is a necessary evil though. People make bad choices of partner and the unhappy upshot can be unbearable for all concerned. Better to divorce than to live in an ongoing war zone.