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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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to think the mental impact of divorce on children is severely underestimated?

329 replies

InsanityandBeyond · 12/03/2014 00:00

Contentious topic Shock.

DC often get an absolutely shit deal when marriages break up and often have to accept their separated parents embarking on new relationships and having to be part of a 'blended' family with DCs from the stepmother/father added into the mix.

Some step/parents that complain about finding these DC hard work and their behaviour difficult to deal with. Not exactly rocket science that DC will be disturbed by having to share living space, and time with their parents, with people they are not related to and not having the security of living with, and focused attention of, both parents which is their birthright.

A lot of marriages break up way too easily these days as the parents want to be 'happy' or have 'fallen out of love', 'want a newer model' etc, etc with the DC dragged along for the ride with no choice in the matter.

In terms of abusive relationships, it could be argued that you should know your partner and their background well before bringing children into the equation which seems to be a very controversial view Hmm.

Is it really impossible for adults to put their 'happiness' and new relationships, which would have an impact on their DC, on hold until their children are grown up?

The damage is often played out when they become adults as children will accept almost anything from their parents as a survival mechanism until they are old enough to question it. It is thought that DC are resilient and will get over it but I think that is a fallacy self absorbed parents tell themselves to make themselves feel better.

My 17 year old DD is the only person on her college course whose parents are still together. I find that shocking and really sad.

AIBU in thinking that this is a ticking time bomb in an explosion of mental health issues in the next generation and the implications of divorce/separation on children's mental health should be much more ingrained in the morality of society?

OP posts:
glucose · 13/03/2014 07:25

It would be curious to know what would motivate a researcher to study effects of divorce, and just as there is the 'ultimate taboo' on MN too suggest divorce is negative...there must be some sort level of bias in such studies. Our society is what it is, and there is unlikely to be a reversal back to a circa 1950..halycon era of no divorce. Divorce isn't nice, introducing new partners is tricky, but being honest with my DD..'ok I got this wrong' keeping open channels of communication at all times, seems to work. This is anecdotal, not peer reviewed evidenced based, but hey ho...I know the sort of folk who peer review research...and I would not want to be married to THEM.

gabcat · 13/03/2014 07:48

oh so should i get back with my ex who battered me to a pulp when i was 5 months pregnant ? of course it would be more damaging for my child to be from a 'broken home' than to see daddy rip strips from mummy ??

TheRealAmandaClarke · 13/03/2014 07:55

Yes gabcat. That is very clearly what people are suggesting
Hmm

twofingerstoGideon · 13/03/2014 08:05

The OP was couched in terms that suggest people get divorced for trivial or whimsical reasons - 'wanting a newer model', for example. It's no wonder there are so many 'defensive' responses on this thread.

Sorry you went through that, gabcat Thanks

extremepie · 13/03/2014 08:14

It was the 'wanting to be happy' and 'falling out of love' but that got me - 2 of the reasons why I broke up with my ex. He was also a drug addict, borderline abusive to me & the kids, spend 90% of his time ignoring me on the computer. I spent 8yrs doing anything and everything for him and I tried desperately to make our marriage work. I resent the implication that I should have stayed with him after I had fallen out of love with him and just stayed miserable, because after all, when you become a mother you stop having feelings or your own, right? Or do your feelings just not matter anymore?

You only get one life, I'm not prepared to waste mine and throw it away in an attempt to make other people happy! You can never please anyone anyway, there will always be those who disapprove of your choices :p

TheRealAmandaClarke · 13/03/2014 08:16

It was a bit inflammatory.
And I'm really sorry you had that gabcat
But I do agree that ppl often underestimate the impact of their own lationships on their children.
And plenty of ppl do put the success of their own sexual/ romantic relationships before what's best for their children. Of course, that doesn't mean that all ppl who separate are doing that. But it's not uncommon ime.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 13/03/2014 08:17

Absolutely Amanda.

But that isn't what the OP was saying.

And it took her a good few pages before she backtracked and floated down from her cloud of "you silly silly women, you must simply learn to love daddy again"

As for the research. Well, lies, damn lies and statistics. For every paper concluding the OP is right, there will be one saying she isn't. There is always a bias in any kind of research. Andrew Wakefield, Boots Protect and Perfect? Both utterly conclusive in their time. And both initiated by the very people who wanted so much that those results be extrapolated. Peer reviewing is also a bit Emperor's New Clothes- I will only read a research paper if a) I already agree with its findings b) I want to refute them. But if I want to refute them, I have to do my own research to prove it.....and so the circle turns.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 13/03/2014 08:19

Tbf wakefields research was never "pretty conclusive"

Dahlen · 13/03/2014 08:32

Great post by mumandboys. Personally, I think it is parents who affect their children's mental wellbeing and that is irrespective of whether those parents stay together or not. A child brought up in a dysfunctional family where the parents remain together will suffer far more than a child born to parents who get divorced but handle that divorce sensibly, amicably and with their children's interests paramount.

Few people get through life without some cross to bear in their childhood experiences. Something that marks them and influences the adult they become and the attitudes they hold. For some children it will be their parents' divorce. For others it will be the playground bully. Others may lose a grandparent or have a parent who loses a job and home as a result of the drop in income. All of these things can have a huge or minimal impact depending on the circumstances and personalities involved. Divorce is no different.

Do I think that some people jump in and out of relationships too quickly? Yes. Do I think that forcing them to stay together "for the sake of the children" is the answer? No, definitely not.

You could argue that the rise in single parents today is the result of easier divorce and greater social acceptance. But what the OP fails to acknowledge is that the happily married don't get divorced generally. So why is it that so many people get divorced? I would argue that it's because the family history of many people has been damaged by the centuries where people had no choice but to stay with their spouse irrespective of beatings, affairs, poisonous atmospheres or simple unhappiness. What the children growing up in this were taught about relationships in turn affected their own. The growing divorce rate is simply a reflection that in the past a great deal of people were forced to remain married when it was in no one's best interest.

Unfortunately, while it takes two people to make a marriage works, it only takes one person in a marriage to ruin it.

Far better to break the cycle and leave.

Divorce is a good thing. What is needed is more guidance (and compulsion in some cases) to encourage parents to handle their divorces with the children at the centre.

ithaka · 13/03/2014 08:35

But this is not just about the OP. Other posters have shared their experience about the negative affects of their parent's divorce.

The message from those posters is - do not forget how hard divorce is on children; do not assume because you adore your new partner that your children will or should be expected to; do not expect your children to be over it or move on to your timescale.

People can put their finger in their ears and go 'laa laa laa, my children sailed through divorce; my life won't be worth living without a man in it (really?); blended families are great'. Some of us are just gently trying to pull the fingers out of their ears and explain divorce can cause great and lasting pain to children. Recognising that is the first step to mitigating it.

Eliza22 · 13/03/2014 08:51

My father was a violent drunk yet, a good man when sober. I was relieved at 18 when they finally divorced.
My (now) DH was married 20 yrs when he found out his wife was having a long term affair. She wanted to stay with him but refused to give up her affair. Nice woman.
My sister's marriage ended after her husband had numerous affairs and he finally left her for a girl 3 years older than his daughter.
My first husband left when my ds was 4. Three weeks after him being diagnosed with autism. He wasn't "cut out" for family life, apparently. News to me, that one.

There were children involved in all of these marriage breakdowns.

Shit happens. Life is a learning curve.

Frankly OP, I find your post rather judgemental and not just a little bit smug. Ought my DH to have allowed his (ex) wife to take the piss out of him indefinitely or just until his kids grew up? Ought my mum to have known that my own dad would change so much over the years (due to chronic alcoholism) that his youngest daughter would take to sleeping with a carving knife under the bed, so convinced was she, that at some point she might need to defend her mum from his violent outbursts and if necessary, injure him? My sister turned a blind eye to her husbands philandering as they had a "good" marriage in many respects but he left her. Should she have allowed him to continue with his little affairs for ever because his kids had their dad there (when he wasn't out with his girlfriend) ?

These people aren't bad people, they didn't walk around with a sign announcing to prospective partners "don't pick me...I am damaged/drink too much/will never be faithful/will find that I preferred being a single man to being married". It must be wonderful to have the moral high ground. Well done OP, good for you!

TheRealAmandaClarke · 13/03/2014 08:59

Good post ithica

Dahlen · 13/03/2014 09:50

ithaka - I don't think most people do pretend that everything is ok in the main. On the contrary, I think many people stick it out far longer than they should precisely because they are worried about the disruptive effects on their children. Quite often, it is this phase - the bit between recognising things can't be fixed until the point where separation happens - that actually does most of the damage IMO.

I think most parents agonise greatly about the lasting effects of divorce actually. Although that may not be the image they choose to present to the rest of the world or those who wish to pass judgement.

Divorce is not something to aspire to, of course not, and like many things in life it will leave a mark. However, handled well it does not necessarily leave lasting consequences that result in a negative impact on the rest of those children's lives. It will shape them, yes, but not in a way that is dysfunctional.

The key is handling it well.

RedandChecker · 13/03/2014 10:58

I completely disagree. My parents handled it well. It has had a negative impact. That does not mean to say I wish they had stayed together, as an adult I understand and I want them to be happy because they are my parents.

It is down to remembering that horrible day as a child when my world came crashing down and the only two people you love immensly part meaning you see one of them less. It is the guilt that follows, and as a child that is a very hard feeling to explain or to show. It was definately the butterfly effect of their divorce.
I experienced life in a lone father family, and then in a lone mother family. Then in 2 step families.

Every person has the right to be happy, and if your unhappiness is effecting your children, then yes, seperate.
I felt guilt towards both of my parents when they had new partners. As an understanding child, no matter how well the situation is dealt with a child will still feel loyal to the parents they love. As an older child, they will remember when mummy and daddy were together and that is hard. I did not want to talk about my step-father to my dad even though I adored my step-father. With my step-mother, and step-siblings I was vile, she would try to be mumsy and looking back now, I must have made her feel very uncomfortable, but as a child I felt uncomfortable.

Both of my parents second relationships fell through and that was definately down to us three children of divorce effecting both of their relationships. We again, experienced seperations. Only this time these massive figures in our lives, we never saw again.

I strongly believe that all adults in the situation should come together, try their best to get on and attend family gatherings together. Also, I think the child should have counselling. This is due to my experience of my parents assuming that we'd turn out ok and they did the right thing. I think my mother still believes that and she is completely oblivious or rather, doesn't want to know the effect is has had now we are adults. My father on the other hand, knows now, and talks about it to me and I feel he is in pain which I think is why as an adult I still cry when he leaves, because I still feel guilty for him.

I think some of the statements the OP made are wrong, ofcourse you should know who you are having children with but people change and sometimes become a completely different being to the one you met, this is in no ones control and you cannot blame victims of DV for this.

However, her opening post is true. The effect of divorce and seperation on children is underestimated and too many parents are too quick to seperate these days putting their happiness above their childrens assuming that it will be ok. Yes I am ok, I didn't go off the rails, but my sister did, and for me it has completely shaddowed my relationship and choices. I do not think the OP should have been suspended due to 'single mother pom poms'. There is nothing wrong with a debate, or disagreement even if you feel offended by some peoples views no one will ever agree especially on a subject like this.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 13/03/2014 11:16

Thanks excellent post Redandchecker

TillyTellTale · 13/03/2014 12:34

Oh, come on. The OP didn't lose her account on account of (see what I did there?) "single mother pom-poms".

From the first post, s/he was deliberately being nasty. And apparently s/he has form for it.

If this was actually a "debating forum", this thread would either have been deleted by page 3, for not providing debate material, or moved to a chat/rant sub-forum. Or have I developed a weird eye disorder that means I keep skipping over some thoughtfully written analysis and citations?

Like I said, this would not have been allowed to stand on any debating forum I've ever joined, and before it was moved/deleted, it would have been ripped apart in style for logical fallacies.

MNHQ are allowing the discussion to stand for Mumsnetters, aren't they? They haven't banned anyone for agreeing with the OP, have they? That's very inefficient silencing.

And no, I'm not divorced. None of what the OP said addresses any part of my life, whatsoever. I have no sensitivity on it. I still think she was goading.

lurkerspeaks · 13/03/2014 13:14

My parents were unhappily married for more than 40 years.

My siblings and are totally fucked up. Not one of us has a long term relationship. We are all in our 30s

One of my siblings and I talked about it recently - it is really sad that we feel this way. We quite literally have no idea what a normal relationship is and have essentially chosen to be single and self contained than at the vagary of someone else dictating our happiness/life.

NannyAnna · 13/03/2014 15:15

Well said! People are selfish!

twofingerstoGideon · 13/03/2014 15:48

I'm guessing that's 'other people' Nanny...

TillyTellTale · 13/03/2014 16:24

Mumsnet lacks a quoting facility, so I will rely heavily on underlining. Also take into account that I'm not a skilled debator, and other people would be far more efficient in taking the OP apart.

Contentious topic
Bad sign. [Insert amusing sarcastic picture here]

DC often get an absolutely shit deal when marriages break up
Define "shit deal" and quantify "often". Otherwise this is unsubstantiated, ill-defined opinion.

and often have to accept their separated parents embarking on new relationships and having to be part of a 'blended' family with DCs from the stepmother/father added into the mix.

Your premise concerned the "mental impact of divorce" on children, and whether people severely underestimated its significance. You are now conflating the effects of blended families with that of divorce. Not all children of divorced parents will ever have step parents. Of those that do, not all will have step-siblings. These are separate issues.

Some step/parents that complain about finding these DC hard work and their behaviour difficult to deal with. Not exactly rocket science that DC will be disturbed by having to share living space, and time with their parents, with people they are not related to and not having the security of living with, and focused attention of, both parents which is their birthright.
You're still confusing step-parenting issues with issues of divorce, and you are implying that all children have "security" as a result of living with their parents, and "focused attention of both parents". That, unfortunately, is not always the case, and that, itself, may lead to the breakdown of a marriage.

A lot of marriages break up way too easily these days as the parents want to be 'happy' or have 'fallen out of love', 'want a newer model' etc, etc with the DC dragged along for the ride with no choice in the matter. Unsubstantiated opinion.

In terms of abusive relationships, it could be argued that you should know your partner and their background well before bringing children into the equation which seems to be a very controversial view
Absurd view. Are children of an abusive relationship less worthy to be brought up in an emotionally and physically safe environment, because the victim in the marriage didn't foresee the issues? Are they innately destined to witness domestic violence?

Or are you simply ignorant of the fact that living in a domestically abusive environment affects the children? Even if they are never hit themselves, there is a "mental impact". It's not a simple case of "well, if, the woman (because usually it is) does her duty and makes the best of it, the children will be fine".

Is it really impossible for adults to put their 'happiness' and new relationships, which would have an impact on their DC, on hold until their children are grown up?

Still conflating divorce with new relationships?

The damage is often played out when they become adults as children will accept almost anything from their parents as a survival mechanism until they are old enough to question it. It is thought that DC are resilient and will get over it but I think that is a fallacy self absorbed parents tell themselves to make themselves feel better.

And this only applies to children of divorced parents now? Not children of unhappily married parents, or children whose parents were in an abusive relationship, obviously. According to your thought process.

My 17 year old DD is the only person on her college course whose parents are still together. I find that shocking and really sad.

And this has what statistical validity?

AIBU in thinking that this is a ticking time bomb in an explosion of mental health issues in the next generation and the implications of divorce/separation on children's mental health should be much more ingrained in the morality of society?

Based on your post, YABU. No support for your assertions at all. Or internal coherency.

If you don't like my post, fair enough. Debate versus discussion is very much personal taste. The above is not MN style, which is why I don't use it here normally.

SallyMcgally · 13/03/2014 17:23

Excellent post, Tilly Smile

taratamara · 13/03/2014 19:18

I can't decide if OP thinks my dcs would be better off if I'd stayed with exh even though he had got himself a girlfriend Confused and yes, I didn't see that coming funnily enough, but I'd be living a lie and so would they. I for one don't care to go back to a society where everything has to be swept under the carpet.

I agree with mumandboys (great post, as is yours tilly and many others) and sadly my dcs are just as stigmatised, from what I can see, as I was when my parents divorced in the 70s. Single mums are seen as a threat to some married people too I think, thankfully not most.

taratamara · 13/03/2014 19:20

And most people don't divorce lightly, or wish it on their dcs, or ignore the impact on their dcs, or move in 'string of uncles' or force unsuitable step-parents on their dcs.

Yes, some do, but there are all sorts of parents, married or not

Dahlen · 13/03/2014 19:40

Good post Tilly.

What annoys me in topics like this is that divorce is always compared to the idealised marriage. Surely the point is that the idealised marriage doesn't exist in cases where a divorce is pending.

I left my DC's father many years ago. I have been a single parent ever since, and while I have had a BF for a while, he does not cohabit. My children have had stability of home, school and family set up in that time. A stability that would not have been evident had I stayed with their father.

I don't want to appear smug but my children are excelling at school, are happy and outgoing, and I have been told by numerous teachers/child care professionals that they are among the most well-balanced children they have worked with.

I talk to my children about our relationship, their father (who they no longer have any contact with), our separation, their lives in general, from who's done what at school to what's for dinner. I think that is the key - and to listen rather than talk at.

Redandchecker - I have to echo Tilly that you are conflating blended families with divorce, which are two separate issues. And while I don't want to point score off your clearly difficult childhood, which I am sorry you suffered, from an outside POV the several different homes and set-ups you experienced would seem to me to be far more likely to create insecurity. I don't think most children of divorced parents would experience quite as many homes as you.

I totally take your point about guilt. I think that is underestimated. Children assume so much responsibility for adult problems it is heartbreaking at times. However, it's not divorce per se that causes that; it is parental inability to recognise it and deal with it - often very understandably because they are dealing with their own emotional difficulties. But the point is that parents who are well-educated (about divorce and its impact) can anticipate this, deal with it, and prevent the sorts of problems you've experienced.

I don't think anyone on here is pretending divorce is something to aspire to. No one aspires to it or they wouldn't get married in the first place. But since it is often the best outcome when a relationship falls apart, it is surely pointless to demonise those who divorce instead of concentrating on the damage they have prevented and in some cases the positives they have created by getting divorced.

Yes, in many cases there will be damage resulting from the divorce, particularly if one or both parents are angry, bitter and so wrapped up in their own lives that they fail to see the potential pitfalls for their child.

That's not to say that all cases are like that.

RedandChecker · 13/03/2014 19:50

Obviously all cases are not like that - I 100% agree that sometimes separating is the best solution, I have said that many times in this discussion. I just think that some people (not all, but many) assume that as they have made the best decision given the situation the DC will now not suffer, they will, just in different ways - unless dealt with properly hence me saying being a united team As adults and offering counselling to the children. It is dealt with in silence by the DCs - they do not know how to talk about It, what to talk about or express or explain their feelings and they are aware divorce is sad and a sad time for their parents so may not feel they can speak about it. I am not saying that divorce is wrong in all cases and to sweep things under the carpet AT ALL, I am Agreeing with the OP in the comment that the effect is under estimated and this is what we need to deal with as a society so our children can feel secure and form good relationships in their adult lives as this is when the effects become apparent.

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