AIBU to think you shouldn't discipline another child...

[MogwaiTheGremlin]

...unless it's something quite serious?

My ds is 19 months and this morning we went to a new playgroup for the first time so I didn't know any of the other mums. Ds went over to an older/bigger child and grabbed a toy car off him. The other child didn't seem too put out (no outraged squawk / crying) but I made my way over to return it to the child as he had clearly been playing with it. Before I got there the child's mother / carer had grabbed it back off ds and said quite loudly "No! Don't snatch. He was playing with it".

I was a bit miffed because I wouldn't discipline a child I didn't know and also I try to save "No" for serious crimes. We are teaching ds to pass things nicely (failed!) and an adult grabbing something sets a bad example. Also because she raised her voice a few people turned to look and it made ds' behaviour seem much worse than it was. Just a bit embarrassing as we were new.

I realise it's not a big deal but AIBU?

algea thats what I have been trying incoherently to say...

I think it is rude to take a toy off a 19 month old. So I wouldn't do it.

I don't believe a 19 month old can empathise with the child they took the toy off so there is no point telling them that my kid was already playing with it.

Just saying "no" achieves nothing if the 19 month old cannot tell what action of theirs it is connected to and their vocab probably doesn't extend to "snatching" so that is pointless too.

In fact all the other woman actually achieved was to reinforce the fact that the way to get something you want is to simply take it off the person that has it. Nice one. Not.

I am glad to hear that this is widely acceptable - because, until now, I have never said no or tried to discipline someone else's child!

I now know it is OK to tell the little girl (aged 3, almost 4) who follows my 2 year old around toddler group snatching everything DD picks up from her hands or turning the toys DD is playing with around, away from DD (toy cooker, dolls house etc.) to do one. Not in those words obviously.

Her mum is generally sat in a group of other mums having a chat & not actually watching her child at all. I have spoken to the mum previously, to ask her to ask her DD not to do this and received the reply "they all need to learn to share". Yes, that's absolutely fine - and that is exactly what I tell my DD - but this is pointedly a 'bigger girl following the littler ones about just for the purpose of taking things off them'. She does it to about 4 or 5 of the younger children in turn (none of the other mothers are watching their DCs either). I did think maybe she just wanted to play & have tried to include her in DD's game - but no, she just doesn't want DD using any of the toys! I breathe a sigh of relief on the weeks she doesn't go .

no is a word that children understand the more they hear it
I am laughing at the concept that saying it too often renders it meaningless
25 years experience as a preschool teacher tells me otherwise

Yabvvu of course if their impacts negatively on other children. Mabey she overreacted by shouting 'don't snatch' she could have said no Toby's placing with that, of we don't snatch.

I think its rude and OTT at that age. Some posters make it seem like their is a wild panic, your child must be reprimanded and right^ this second otherwise they will turn into Neanderthal thug forever more....

A simple response would have been for the mother to have given your child another toy to distract whilst returning the said toy, to her child.

YABU

If you make a conscious decision to parent in a particular way, it's a good idea to have a think about how that is going to work in group situations.

I know various people who've followed "alternative" schools of parenting - some in quite strict, regulated ways. Some have spent their children's whole infancy being outraged and indignant that other people aren't intuitively understanding the "right" way to engage with their children. Others have recognised that it is for them to make decisions about how to ensure that their values are what their child is exposed to.

e.g. if you don't want people saying 'no' over small things, then you need to be following your child around to make sure that there is no need/opportunity for any other parent to intervene.

People aren't bound by other people's personal parenting decisions. You don't want to overuse 'no' - and I understand that - I probably use it too much - but you can't expect another parent to be aware of your stance, and second-guess whether or not her use of 'no' is valid in the circumstances. She shouldn't have snatched herself, but nothing wrong with what she said.

You say you were 'making your way over' which suggests that there was a brief delay between the snatching and you being able to intervene - she probably just saw that no-one was instantly reacting and dealt with it herself. If you'd been sitting right next to your child, she may have left it to you to deal with, who knows.

Oh, how stupid is some of this thread.

op I don't go with the 'saving' "no" but you were not being unreasonable.

The woman who took the toy back also had a touch of PFB about her.

I am at the poster who tells off children that happen to cross her children's path!

The woman could have very nicely asked for it back, or maybe even look around for Mum. In this situation, she was right on the case!

You know, op if you had asked your question on a different day, wind blowing harder....you might have got a different response.

I'l say it again. YWNBU. :)

Santa do we know the same child its very annoying

Santas I would definitely have had a word with her by now about playing nicely.

That's not 'discipline' it's just normality imo.

If her Mother doesn't like it, she'll have to get over it unless she's willing to sort it out herself.

Agree IceBeing Its maddness but this is MN

And whats with all these 'diddums' and 'non event' style comments? Why post if you find it so tedious? Is there a rule somewhere that dictates what worries and concerns are allowed and what will be roundly mocked? I pity first time parents on MN these days.

DS was a walking bowsie at 18 months and knew well that snatching was wrong. He would stroll up, check to see if I was watching and attempt a snatch. He would also try and get a slap or two in on dd or any other child he deemed had wronged him. He also knew that slapping was wrong because he would try to be sneaky about it.

Hes now 12 and despite hearing no on a near constant basis he is fairly well adjusted. Still a bowsie, but well adjusted.

your child got told off when they did something wrong.... get used to it..... or school will be full of heartache for you both... she didn't do it how I would, or how you would - everyone is different...

I would tell my child that smaller children don't understand about sharing and that it would be kind to let them play. By this point the OP would have interfered and given back the toy

I had not read thread ice you have said everything I wanted to say, the voice of humanity, in fact most of the toddler groups I go too, with low level behaviour of this sort most of the mums do the above.

We cut slack for under twos and dont come crashing down on them like a ton of bricks...lots of posters making this of this for some reason..

www.google.co.uk/search?q=pam+ferris+agatha+trunchbull&client=firefox-a&hs=7eM&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=PjMPU4TgJKe40QWv0YHoAg&ved=0CEAQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=680

The very best thing the OP can do for her child and herself is to view this as a total non event imo.

You would hate me and my extended family. We have no qualms whatsoever about telling other children off, especially badly behaved ones who need supervising more closely.

DSIL recently told one of mine off while I was out of the room. When I came back she told me what had happened and said "I told them off because I figured that's what I would do*. Fair play to her

possibly Moomins, although I suspect there is one in most toddler groups .

Worra - I have been sorely tempted but don't want to look like a grown woman picking on a 3 year old. The little girl in question is also a spontaneous crier - on the odd occasion one of the younger children actually snatches the toy back (or pushes her out of the way, as one little boy did) she immediately starts to cry very loudly & everyone stops drinking their coffee for once turns to look at her. I would prefer it to be her own mum responsible for that reaction IYSWIM.

I think there are a lot of burning underclothes on this thread, because I don't believe for a nanosecond, that faced with a child behaving unacceptably towards your own, at whatever age, you would sit and look around, and wait for mammy to intervene.

What if she doesn't? Like our OP didn't?

Mogwai, your little boy isn't naughty- it's part of a 19mth old's job description to snatch the toy he wants, when he wants it. He'll get better at learning that's Not On. But he will have to be told that's the case.

I would imagine she was trying to model to her own child how to stand up for himself.

I wouldn't ever have a problem with another parent intervening and making my child return a toy they had snatched.

At 18 months children need to be taught, not disciplined and the quicker the response, the better the child will understand that it was prompted by their action in snatching the toy so is it appropriate for the nearest adult to deal with it.

However I would not be happy of that person raised their voice to my child by doing so. That is unnecessary and unhelpful.

Many toddlers that age would find the intervention of an unfamiliar adult a bit of a shock anyway so to a raised voice is OTT. In fact, as a childminder, I don't think I've ever raised my voice to someone else's child unless it was to stop them doing something dangerous.

So YABU to think she shouldn't have intervened but YANBU to think she shouldn't have raised her voice. A quiet, calm intervention would have been fine.

Sorry Lots of poster making me think of this for some reason

lots of posters making this of this for some reason..

www.google.co.uk/search?q=pam+ferris+agatha+trunchbull&client=firefox-a&hs=7eM&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=PjMPU4TgJKe40QWv0YHoAg&ved=0CEAQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=680

worra I just meant that at the soft play I frequent almost all parents of the older child would use it as a learn to share opportunity rather than a chance to reinforce ownership rights.

That's the thing Santas

I just don't know how we as a society have got to a point where we're too scared, to simply tell a small child that what they're doing is wrong.

I don't know why it's so frowned upon now or why some parents think their kids are so special, that another adult shouldn't dare have a word with them about their behaviour.

I've got 3 kids (well one is an adult now) and when they were small, they'd tend to take words from strangers on board a lot quicker.

The same as me and my 4 siblings did when we were kids. In fact we'd feel ashamed or embarrassed if we were badly behaved and a neighbour/stranger/park keeper told us off.

Not that I'm suggesting the OP's baby was badly behaved....I'm just going off on a tangent down memory lane

YANBU, it was unnecessary, especially if you were coming over to deal with it. If a one year old toddler did that to my child, I'd probably say something about my child playing with the 'car' but she'll be done soon- if the baby didn't give it back I'd encourage my older child to move on. There is something to be said for teaching your child to get over something quickly and not focus on things that don't matter. IME, the adults that are endlessly telling off others have the kind of children that irritatingly tell adults 'the rules' of play or worse, instruct you to tell your child off for some misdemeanour. What they fail to understand (because they haven't be taught tolerance) is that in life, people do things differently and have different 'rules', unless of course it is the 'Law'! Equally, the children of those that tell of others a lot fight a lot harder for things and will correct the injustice of a toy being snatched by any means- biting, fighting. The parents have taught them that 'things' are important but in fact they are not and they are not modelling polite behaviour just aggressiveness in tone- like in the OP's case.

The problem with not wanting others to reprimand your child is they may also be nervous about interacting them with at all especially if you get seriously offended by a mild telling off. I have no problems with others reprimanding my dcs as long as its done appropriately because I'd also like them to intervene if any of my dcs were in danger or in trouble.