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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think you shouldn't discipline another child...

382 replies

MogwaiTheGremlin · 27/02/2014 11:54

...unless it's something quite serious?

My ds is 19 months and this morning we went to a new playgroup for the first time so I didn't know any of the other mums. Ds went over to an older/bigger child and grabbed a toy car off him. The other child didn't seem too put out (no outraged squawk / crying) but I made my way over to return it to the child as he had clearly been playing with it. Before I got there the child's mother / carer had grabbed it back off ds and said quite loudly "No! Don't snatch. He was playing with it".

I was a bit miffed because I wouldn't discipline a child I didn't know and also I try to save "No" for serious crimes. We are teaching ds to pass things nicely (failed!) and an adult grabbing something sets a bad example. Also because she raised her voice a few people turned to look and it made ds' behaviour seem much worse than it was. Just a bit embarrassing as we were new.

I realise it's not a big deal but AIBU?

OP posts:
TamerB · 28/02/2014 16:14

A 4 yr old is very much a baby-I don't think it fair that a younger child is just allowed to snatch and they have to put up with it because they are older!
It was hardly discipline-she just removed a toy and gave it back.

IdRatherPlayHereWithAllTheMadM · 28/02/2014 16:17

Thats interesting Tamer, so you think babies and 4 year olds should be treated the same?

So when a baby accidentally, unwittingly does something naughty I suppose you punish in the same way you would a deliberately naughty 4 year old Confused.

ADishBestEatenCold · 28/02/2014 16:22

"a child being bitten at playgroup and it's hugely shocking and upsetting - she probably reacted in the moment and lashed out to defend her child"

^^ This is why I didn't punch her senseless! (not easy)

We (with the playgroup manager) took it to the office, out of hearing of the children, where I talked long and hard at to her about the breathtaking wrongness of her action (when I think back, outwardly I probably talked quite calmly, albeit at great length, though I wasn't calm, I was incredibly angry).

It was very upsetting for everyone, at the time. The other mum, too, who I'm sure just wanted to be with her bitten son.

Sillylass79 · 28/02/2014 16:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Goldenbear · 28/02/2014 16:28

TamerB, it is not a case of the youngest one's needs always trumping those of her older brother- not at all. However, there is a 4 year age gap and it is not reasonable to expect the same and treat them the same. DS doesn't lose out as I explain the advantages that only apply to him- later bed time, cinema trips with Mum or Dad, swimming club, friends over to play- etc.

ChocolateWombat · 28/02/2014 17:01

The OPs child wasn't hit though. She was spoken to and toy was taken off her. Like the poster above whose child was slapped, the OP felt really cross. We do tend to have an instant reaction when our child is involved like this. I suppose it is a primal defence mechanism. Whether or not the OP is over reacting, I think we should all recognise that as mothers we are prone to this....and bear it in mind when we look back at events.

2tiredtocare · 28/02/2014 17:09

No one said the OP's child was slapped Chocolate I was objecting to you comparing my assertion that someone could be arrested for slapping a child to people being scared to stop a child running in the road

2tiredtocare · 28/02/2014 17:11

If anything some of us are feeling like we must be under reacting to incidents of toy snatching

ChocolateWombat · 28/02/2014 17:22

Well, I am amazed at the level of anger being expressed on this thread. Not about slapping, but the rest. I would be interested to see how some of you react to other things not going your child's way, at school, or elsewhere. Are you going to be wading in then too?

2tiredtocare · 28/02/2014 17:29

Who is angry? The point about not being able to always be around to sort things out for your child would apply strongly to the shouting snatching mum

Edendance · 28/02/2014 17:44

I used to be a bit wary of not getting involved with other's children at playgroups until I realised how often the behaviour went unoticed by the adult who was meant to be supervising, and how much I was doing a diservice to the children I was with to not demonstrate that snatching etc is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who does it.

I make sure I always say something now. I am careful and calm and I don't raise my voice but I am clear and fair to the child who has been wronged- whether it is mine or someone elses.

There is nothing wrong with the word 'no' it is clear and strong and when consistantly followed through will teach the child always that no means no. Regardless of context, repeating it appropiately will help to re-enforce what it means.

I hate to say it buy you are being a bit PFB

Original poster
MogwaiTheGremlin · 28/02/2014 18:22

Chocolate you are contradicting yourself.
Surely the only person who was angry was the parent who raised their voice.
And they were also the one 'wading in' when things didn't go their child's way by snatching back a toy that had been taken.

OP posts:
anothernumberone · 28/02/2014 18:34

Chocolate a school aged child has the cognitive ability to understand more social constructs than a baby because they have been exposed to more.

I would quite happily take a toy my baby snatched off another child and give it back and say 'we don't snatch'. I do not believe that a 19 month has the cognitive ability to understand they have done something wrong but by 2ish, depending on the child I would expect them to be starting to grasp the concept of mine and not mine and as that realisation develops so does my behaviour expectation. Just because someone intervenes in the early years does not mean they jump into everything at school.

ChocolateWombat · 28/02/2014 18:44

Mogwai, yes the person who grabbed the toy off the toddler was angry and waded in.The OP was angry too...but you are right, she didn't wade in. I apologise if it came across that I meant her. I guess I was thinking about the person whose child was slapped, who understandably got involved. But mainly was referring to posters on here who said they would have been angry in the situation. Lots felt the OP was right to feel put out and would have been angry themselves. They are the ones who sounded to me, like they would have waded in. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was referring to the attitude of wading in....which some people have throughout life.

I can see that intervening with a toddler doesn't mean you always will. Again, I wasn't thinking of the OP but posters on here who were cross on her behalf. I suspect some of them have older children and just wondered if they still like to get involved fighting their child's corner now.

2tiredtocare · 28/02/2014 18:54

I bet snatching mum will be doing it ad infinitum

Goldmandra · 28/02/2014 18:58

Chocolate how on earth do you get from thinking it is inappropriate to raise your voice to a 19 month old baby to getting in the thick of children's squabbles in primary school? Quite bizarre.

Goldenbear · 28/02/2014 19:02

Chocolate, my child is in YR2 and is exceptionally well behaved at school, bright and a good listener- according to school reports so your theory doesn't stand up!

Equally, I think parents that are always correcting the injustices for their children, insisting on telling other people's children off are not helping in the transition to school life where teachers IME, expect the children to get over things quickly!

TamerB · 28/02/2014 19:04

Thats interesting Tamer, so you think babies and 4 year olds should be treated the same?

No, but I think it fair to take the toy off the one who snatched it and give it back.

ChocolateWombat · 28/02/2014 19:15

I'm not sure if Im not expressing myself clearly, or people are just not understanding what I am saying.
For the record, I think speaking to the OPs child, who had taken something from another, was absolutely fine. I think having a word with a little one who is learning how to socialise is fine. That isn't what I mean by wading in. The parent who spoke to the OPs child shouldn't have snatched, but I think their intervention, in a toddler group setting was fine.

The OP did not wade in. She was cross, but let it go. I think she was right to not rush to leap to her child's defence, even if the other mother handled it differently to she would have done. Other posters on here, would have waded in and called that other mother to task for interfering if it was their child she had spoken to. They are the ones I am calling 'waders' so I think I am actually agreeing with GoldenBear.

All Im saying, is I think we should be willing to allow other parents to speak to our children and to correct anti social toddler behaviour. It should not be done through shouting g, snatching or anything horrible....but a word here and there, in a busy place where lots is going on, and parents don't see everything, is helpful.

TamerB · 28/02/2014 19:28

I suspect OP was exaggerating somewhat-suggested by the word 'discipline' in the title. I can think it would be quite easy for me to lean over, take a toy back and say, politely and firmly, 'no, they were playing with it' and have the mother annoyed and using emotive words like 'snatch' and 'shout'.

TamerB · 28/02/2014 19:30

If I was OP I would just have said 'sorry', turned my child and said 'that little boy was playing with it-let's go and find something else'. I don't think anyone was traumatised by it!

ChocolateWombat · 28/02/2014 19:34

Tamer, I agree.
As I said upthread, we do have some kind of primal defence mechanism when it comes to our children. We see someone having a quick word, and it feels like they are hollering and snatching, because our child is so precious to us. That kind of feeling could come over us all. And we do well to remember, we don't always see things e
Regardin g our children in the most balanced way, in the heat of the moment. Pausing, rather than knee jerk is always a good response.

I am not for one moment saying the OP is lying about what happened. Only that we can be very sensitive about people seeming to chastise our children. It is natural....I think we should try to get a bit of a grip on it.

Original poster
MogwaiTheGremlin · 28/02/2014 19:49

I'm glad you don't think I'm lying Hmm but I can assure you that it did happen like I tell it. Not sure why I would bother to post on an anonymous internet forum to gather views / perspective and then exaggerate to suit my side of things Confused?
It wasn't a big deal and I wasn't 'cross', 'upset' or having a 'knee jerk reaction'. As I said I was just a bit miffed someone spoke to my ds like that but it's pretty patronising to suggest I'm so biased that I'm incapable of relaying what actually happened!
The word discipline seems to have set quite a few people off - and maybe 'reprimand' would have been a better choice - but really to my mind a raised voice and a sharp 'no' is about as serious as it gets for a 19 month old. It's not like you can ground them or suspend their pocket money is it?!

OP posts:
TamerB · 28/02/2014 19:59

I dare say I would be a bit miffed but it will happen and you need to help your child deal with it-as in just gently explaining that you mustn't take a toy from someone and then helping them find something else.

ChocolateWombat · 28/02/2014 20:10

Mogwai, I tried to make clear that I did not think you were lying. As you say, why would you. I don't know if you exaggerated or not. I wasn't saying you were, just that it is hard for ALL parents to watch this kind of thing happened in a totally balanced way. I include myself in that too. It's a general comment, not one about you. Please don't take offence.

Do you see though, that while you didn't have a knee jerk reaction, some posters on here would have. Again, my comments have become theoretical, not about you. I tried to make that clear, but sorry if you felt an was attacking you.