To be upset dp doesn't want to marry me

[bellabella10]

As background we've been together for 5 years and have an 18 month old together. When we first moved in together about a year into the relationship we would talk, possibly jokingly, about getting married and having kids at some point in the future. Our baby was a surprise although we love him so much.

Whenever i have brought up the subject in the past two years (not often) he just changes the topic. Last week i approached it head on (I want to change my name anyway so we all have the same surname old school) he said he doesn't want to get married and doesn't know why. I will change my name by deed poll i suppose but it still upsets me.

I didn't even want a big do (although i get a tiny bit jealous when i see my friends getting married) and would be happy going to the registry office with only a few close friends and family.I have a feeling is because he had family abroad but they do come over and we could have a small ceremony in both countries.

Mother the institute for fiscal studies paper on cohabitation includes stats which also agree.

For example "26% of couples that were cohabiting when their child was born experience some period of separation before their child is 3 years old, compared with just 7% of married couples."

All my married mates are divorced or living apart without exception. Got to 45 ish and thought sod this! I think the key is women not seeing themselves as second class and accepting lower paid work and just sliding into the 'home' role without much thought.

It's easy to dismiss figures when you know they come from an organisation established by a man who has been reprimanded multiple times for using statistics to tell lies and when that organisation has an ideological interest in proving marriage to be more stable than cohabitation.

Wot she said.

Mother inferior -I understand your dislike of all the name changing white dress malarkey. But heres a cunning plan to thwart HMRC on inheritance tax -agree to marry DH on condition that he never tells a soul. Then you can avoid all the cultural baggage that you associate with marriage AND stuff George Osborne

The other thing with the stats on cohabitation/divorce is that they are full of presumptions.

The biggest is that they are assume the married couple are the biological parents of the children. This is due to the legal presumption that a married man is automatically deemed to be the father on birth registration, and many surveys do not specifically ask about biological relationships within families presenting as married.

So it is perfectly possible that 'marriage stability figures' are formed of reconstituted families who may, or may not, have been married before. And may or may not be the biological parents of any children in the family home. In other words the snapshot picture, does not reveal the complexity.

And whilst they may be 'stable marraiges' at that point in time, they could end the next day, and go on to form other families.

Oooh, that's interesting creamteas.

So they presume that all of the children in the household are children of the marriage and not step children?

I kind of agree with most of you ! On the one hand, there is a difference between a man refusing to marry the mother of his child, and a woman refusing the same, for the reasons joinyourplayfellows and kristina et al state; women invariably become the RP in a split, and single parents ( women) very often wind up in poverty.
I also agree with Scottish and noddyholder in that, why should women assume that the role of main carer/ lower earner will automatically be theirs? However, this is not something women can change on their own. Its all well and good telling women not to accept that their career will be curtailedetc, but men also have to want the more equal balance between work/ childcare, and they have to make this happen in the workplace.
I would never have been comfortable working full time with a baby in nursery 10 hours a day, but would be fine with working 4 days, and my DP working 4 days , and genuinely sharing the financial hit. Trouble is, this rarely actually happens, as I don't think men DO want this. They know which side their bread is buttered.
So, with reality the way it is, it is foolish for a woman who does not have the assets a man has, due to childcare/ mat leave, to be married. And I hate that I am saying that in 2014, also being a comitted Ms! As far as the OP goes, I know lots of men, and have lots of brothers, and men , when in love, are very romantic, and will want to get married. Conversely, a man will spend years with a woman he doesn't really love, out of convenience, in a way that would shock most women. Never underestimate how a lot of men like an easy life, but also how, when love hits them, they will do very surprising things.. I also don't buy the " oh his ex wife really hurt him, and that's why" explanation. My db's last wife was awful. He is about to tie the knot again, because he is in love.( or nuts- the jury's out)

Sad is this notion women need male protection if married or mother
Make your own protection don't financially depend on a man.the fact,that others chose to do so doesn't make it less precarious position. Fortunately it isn't norm to be unwaged and financially dependent upon male.and actually more women Work than don't work (ONS 2013)

From the off dp and I were clear we share parental demands.divvy up tasks
Daily we know Who responds if we get the call,and it's not necessarily mum
For as long as some women give up work,and shoulder the bulk parental responsibility they are choosing to enact stereotypical role/behaviour. Becomes self fulfilling. why Not share parenting with your partner?

Same we just shared everything.

Perhaps he doesn't want to make a promise that might not be kept, given the way things so often go these days with marriage. Some men consider oaths deathly serious things, but it's not exactly the sort of thing you could voice to someone you loved, is it?

I'm advising keep working,have your own income.retain employability
Whether pt or ft the ability to earn own money and have job is a security
The advice of some to get married to formalise dependency is still ropy advice

My relationship with my now DH (cohabited for 10 years first) is and has always been a partnership. We don't make decisions based on who is male or female but on what is best for US. Before we got married, we were both financially dependent on each other at different times, while we developed our careers - something that's paid off well.

I absolutely do not get having children with someone who it would be 'wrong' to be 'financially dependent' on. If DH and I had had kids 3 years ago, he would have been the logical person to take leave & lead on childcare. Over the last 3 years I've had some health issues and his career has really taken off. I also have a good maternity leave package, whereas he would get statutory minimum - and it would be far easier for me to pick my career back up after a break. So short and long-term it is better for our family for me to take the lead on childcare at the moment. He isn't protecting me, or taking care of me - we are both making an equal and significant contribution to our family. I won't actually be financially dependent on him - but if I was, I don't see how that's a problem or why it should make anyone sad.

Given that our children are a choice, that we are making an equal commitment to, I actually think it would be deeply offensive (not to mention rather sexist) for me to say 'I don't need a man, I can raise my kids alone'. Obviously, either myself or my husband could end up a single parent, but they are not 'my' kids, they are 'ours' & as such my DH is entitled to make an equal contribution to their upbringing.

I do think that marriage gives a better legal framework for long-term relationships. I've never worried about the financial side, but having had a very dear family friend treated horribly by her 'real' relatives when terminally ill and been powerless to stop it, that protection mattered more to me as I got older. So in response to the OP, I don't think it's unreasonable to be upset and to at least expect a reason.

When our CM has a holiday we split time off equally (though he can work from home and I can't)

I generally do more of the Childcare because I put her to bed and take her to and from CM. But probably that's it. I don't think marriage would change a thing in our partnership. Apart from that thing people say they can't put their finger on and some legal stuff

A man can chose to Have children and be unmarried,as can a woman
No one is under compulsion to marry if they're a parent.
A man choosing not to marry is exercising choice,preference as a woman can do.
It's not selfish in least to be unmarried male father.and no a man isn't responsible for female economic security

I think advising women to marry for security,is dreadfully sad in 2014,
that notion that female wellbeing inextricably linked to having a husband
But for so long as some women give things up,and men don't there will be imbalance. The imbalance can be addressed if both male,female share parenting

Legally,marriage confers legal rights that cohabitants don't have
That doesn't mean I think people should necessarily marry
I think cohabitants should be aware of their status and rights

In my opinion Have knowledge and make informed choices

Back to op. Her dp can legitimately decline to be married to her. They both need to acknowledge their individual views sand not dwell

Because habitually on this thread the if you're a housewife marry him maxim has been repeated
People have explicitly advised marriage if one a housewife,that inextricably links them to waged partner
Men who won't marry partner have been derided,called selfish for apparently failing to protect female partner

The consistent from so,e has been that a man must marry to provide fir female,that her provision originates from him

You can say how things should be until the cows come home Scottishmummy. It does not mean they will be that way through wishing.

As many women as men may work but their average hourly wage will be lower and the number of hours they work will be lower.

What an inane response bear.i will consistently express my pov,as others will too
If you don't care for that response,fair enough but I won't refrain from posting
And I expect others will continue to assert men should marry women they have children with

Well it does if that woman has agreed to stay at home to look after their children. He is responsible for her.

I agree with you that women should remain employable. I have stayed working, albeit part time, because in five years time I don't want to be scrabbling around for any job I might be able to do. I also like earning my own money and using my skills.

Not all women do this though. Some don't want to, some can't afford childcare or think they can't because they offset the cost against what they would earn not the family income. In cases like this the male partner, husband or not, is responsible for supporting the wife and marriage will protect her better than living together.