To wonder why women continue to bash each other over the SAHM/WOHP thing

[happyyonisleepyyoni]

I'm sick of hearing women justify their own life choices by bitching about others. It's nasty and low.

Can't we give each other the benefit of the doubt and accept that in the vast majority of cases, people do what they think is best for their families-whether that means staying at home or working. There is no moral right or wrong here.

The End!

Ah right I see. I think I misread her post.

in my experience most sensible people realise that families do what's best for them.

I have never really heard women in RL 'bitch' or really care a damn what other women do regarding this either.

life is far too busy for that.

I think in fairness Eveesmummy,I think you need to stop discussing this with your boss because he is a massive wanker.
And his ridiculous views are not really representative of anyone except other massive wankers.

To actually answer the question

I think it's because we all want to be seen as doing the best for our children and we don't like other peoples ways of doing their best to make us feel bad about the way we are doing it.

I talk about how me working will show DD that she can push gender boundaries and do whatever she wants and give her a strong work ethic but I'd love to be a SAHM or spend two or three days a week at home spoiling her rotten and the other days working to buy her stuff.

I'm currently 10 minutes into an episode of Supernanny and I imagine some SAHP would give anything to go to work just for some respite!!

but do women really debate this is RL? never heard them.

we all as parents feel guilty at times for most things but this working mother v SAHP seems to me to be a media hyped daily mail type crap. it's so old fashioned now.

I try Pagwatch. I really do. We end up in a debate about something family related nearly every day. I also have my finances set very differently to him. Eg, DP just bought the car he'd always wanted (only an old golf but a dream car nonetheless) and as it's more fuel efficient than my tank he thought he should give it to me and he drives a big family car even though DD is always with me. It's like he's an idiot. or like a person only stupider.

But I do say to him that we do things differently and leave it at that. But he doesn't grrrrrrr. And I want to tell my colleagues how DD is doing not be afraid to mention her in case he goes off on a tangent.

I have a friend and a close relative and they are constantly moaning about how busy they are. One has one child and the other has two age 13 and 9.

I must admit as a WM I do get quite annoyed with their complaints. I do wonder what they do all day (sorry!) but claiming shopping and tidying the house - well that's what ALL of us have to do.

Both have cleaners. One in particular I feel is heading for trouble. Already her DH is complaining that she just spends his money and moans about being so tired. I can understand when the DC were younger but now....

The only person in RL I ever have it defend my SAHM status to is my mum.

She was at home with us when we were young ( did a bit of evening bar work when we were very young )then studied and got herself a well paid career by the time we were all at secondary school)

She is always going on about me going back to work now the kids are at school. I have to constantly remind her that I have just lived my life the other way round to her.

She was 20 when she had me, 35 when she started her career and 60 when she retired.

I was 36 when I became a mum and I'd had a successful well paid 20 year banking career by then. I was ready to be a SAHM and I'm still really enjoying it 7 years in.

She thinks I must be bored but I have lots of hobbies and interests and am always busy outside of the home. She is retired now but I never asked her if she is bored!

How are they with their kids hand cream? I think as an adult, you are always tired regardless of anything. Your body gets used to the energy you use and sticks at that. I'm no more tired when I've done everything one can possibly fit into a day than when I've done fuck all. My motivation wains tho.

My best friend is a SAHM. She either moans about seeing nothing but these four walls or being tired. She gets up at 9 when DC1 wakes up, gives him a bottle and puts tv in his room on (he's 2.5) and goes back to bed. At 10 she drags herself downstairs and puts him infrint of tv and goes to kitchen for a fag and a coffee. DC2 has thrown this routine a bit as she is teeny tiny but you get my point. That sounds like a life of Riley to me and I'm jealous.

I also remember when I was about 20 weeks pregnant she was shocked I was still working.

Her DCs are lovely tho and once she's woken up she does stuff with them. But even on a day when she's had a lie in and say watching kids tv all day and cleaned up etc she's knackered. On days we all go to wacky followed by a park followed by whatever she's equally tired. That's my point.

I think sometimes the problem is that these threads get populated with people who have an unusually hard time and (therefore) a bit of an axe to grind and they're just dying to take it all out on someone who makes a generalisation about SAHPs or WOHPs.

Having said that (rolls up sleeves) I do go a bit when WOHPs say they do all that a SAHP does plus a job. I'm a SAHP to 21 month old twins and I mean, sure, I can shove in the odd pile of washing or throw something in the oven before my OH gets home but I don't have piles of time while they're awake (lunchtime nap just now, and I am eating lunch) and I do stuff like preparing their dinners, clearing up the house etc when they've gone to bed or before they get up in the morning. Basically, at this age when you're caring for them you're caring for them and you can't do a lot else besides. I'm going back to work in a month or so and I'll be paying for someone else to look after them basically while I am commuting and working and to make them breakfast, lunch and dinner and as far as I can see that means I'm just going to do a direct swap of time doing childcare for time at work. I start on the 10th of April so you can all come and enjoy the Schadenfreude then if this thread is still alive and it turns out I have to eat my words!

It's funny isn't it. IRL I find people are a lot more sensitive about what they say re your childcare choices along with everything else. I wonder if the anonymity of MN lets us say what we think, or do we just whip ourselves up into a bad mood? Bit of both I suppose.

This is mainly a British problem. In Scandinavia and Germany, parents get ample parental leave which they can share. Not sure, but I think it's about 18 months in total per child. Nurseries are very affordable and sahms don't exist much. In fact I think Scandinavians find the concept of women not working one their dc is over a year or so quite dated and odd.

Here, in the uk, we are very backwards indeed. Lots of mothers aspire to being a sahm and to live life as a housewife à la 1950ies. Also in Sweden most dads are very involved with family life and equally share doing the household and rearing their dc with their partners. Oh, and they also often. Do to bother getting married.

I really wonder why we have a much more outdated mindset here?

Forgive my spelling and strange punctuation

Oh I don't think people are more sensitive in RL.
I think you only get one person at a time saying it but I have had people ask me why my DH didn't get a better job so I could SAH or why I didn't want to bring up my own children.

I honestly think the older your children are, the easier it is to say to people who question you that it's none of their business, when my DCs were young I used to take it to heart and think there was something wrong with me because I chose to go to work and use childcare.

Now I couldn't really give a fuck tbh.

I know that when my DCs were small, I couldn't have been a SAHM because tbh, I haven't got that....I don't even know what it is, I just know I would have been terrible at it. So I think anyone who makes that commitment is a better person than me. But I accept that, and I find now the DCs are a lot older I enjoy their company much more.
That probably sounds terrible but it's honest at least

My friend is a SAHM. I want to live in her house because she is bloody amazing. I wish she was my mum.

I don't think one option is better than the other because everyone, thank god, is different. Imagine how boring it would be if we all did and thought exactly the same thing.

hmmmm, I need to find me a Swedish man!!!!

I know its going to be like that in uk soon abstractingplay but we wanted dh to have all my maternity leave as Im going back at 2 weeks but it doesnt come in until april 2015!! Grr missed out by 6 months!

I find that attitude rather offensive Abstract. I am a SAHM because DH and I made the decision, as a partnership, that the best person to provide childcare for our daughter was me. Not a nanny or a childminder or a crèche or a nursery, but me, her mother. I fail to see how wanting to care for my own child makes me "backward" or "outdated", though as I said in my earlier post I understand that doesn't suit a lot of women and agree that provision should be in place to make it as easy as possible for them to return to work.

I've only ever seen it on here. IRL have never even heard it mentioned

Because they fail to have empathy or be able to see that their choice is theirs and that other people may make a different choice that is just as good albeit different.

Just because someone else chooses a different path doesn't make it the wrong path.

I think insecurity also is a factor and jealousy. I often wonder deep down if these 'high fliers' who slate SAHMs are deep down low paid and feel forced to work when they long to be at home. I also think some of the venom by a few WOHMs may be because they want everyone to do the same as them so that if there are any affects it will be the same for all kids and then they won't feel so bad?

Having been both WOHM and SAHM I really don't care what others do but am fed up of people commenting on SAH as 'doing nothing' as if onlypaid work is of any importance in life. If other people do differently to me then good for them if they are happy.

I genuinely think that people in Sweden are more equal and that sexism is less of a issue there although it does exist. Women are very much their own person, confident and attractive without being submissive in their body language. I wish I lived there .

However on the downside, I believe casual racism is more around in and acceptable over there. The uk seems more at ease and at peace with its diverse population..... I think... I hope .

I dont think abstracts posts are offensive. I love the scandanvian way of life.

It definitely exists IRL.

One friend is a SAHM and another friend is a WOHM working full time. The SAHM lays into my other friend for working f/t all the time (when she's not there) saying that the difference between childcare fees & her wage "isn't that much", she should stay home and her children would be less difficult etc etc. She is really judgemental about it.

The SAHM seems almost personally offended that our other friend works and according to her "doesn't financially need to". I can totally see it's about way more than that but bit scared to discuss it!

Scandinavia and Germany are hardly utopia though. We couldn't just applies those policies here without the rest of society also changing. In Sweden there is a huge amount of people of sick(up to a fifth of women) or retiring early for sick reasons. Many more women are low paid or part time. Also it isn't a choice for many mothers. As the policies say they have had to 'push women out to work' and 'pull men into the home'. In what way is this good if people aren't choosing for themselves? There are also questionable rules about home schooling and are growing numbers of mothers who want to stay home.

Lucky me, I manage to be attractive, confident and not in the least submissive without living in Scandinavia.

I suppose I like it jellybeans as me and dh are a very modern couple so their way of life seems great