Family dispute - who is BU?

[Plateofcrumbs]

This could be a long one. I'll try to make it as brief as possible but sorry if I miss any important details in process.

My brother and SIL have been married about 8 years and have a 1 year old. SIL has a physical disability which impacts her mobility, but she is very independent.

When they met, my brother was living with my mum. He was probably a bit of a mummy's boy. SIL-to-be lived a long way away (they met online).

My mum has always been a very practical kind of person who calls a spade a spade. When DB and SIL first got together my mum expressed to me she was worried that my brother was taking on a lot - travelling across country to see SIL every weekend and him supporting her with her disability.

Apparantly she voiced similar concerns to my brother, who repeated them to SIL and they struck a nerve.

Fast forward 8 years and it seems resentment about these comments has been steadily building. Over time mum has been given an increasingly cold shoulder by SIL. She has been given repeated excuses over years to not visit them, or SIL is away/working when mum has visited (they live at other end of country so visits are not regular).

My brother confided in me last year that SIL did not want to see my mum at all. I told him he needed to resolve this and could not keep giving excuses to my mum, especially now they had a son my mum was desperate to meet.

He has now told my mum SIL wants nothing to do with her as 'it is clear you do not like her' (no further explanation provided). My mum is heartbroken and thinks she will never she her grandson again.

Clearly there's a lot of second hand info here but who is BU? Can this be resolved?

My apologies if I am missing something which is bleedin' obvious to everyone else but - why does it matter?

They live distant from each other so unless there is a foundation of love and affection then visiting is always going to be no more than a chore whether for host or guest.

There isnt that foundation so SiL is avoiding the chore. So what? When DGS is a bit bigger then DB can arrange visits if he wants to.

IMO GPs dont have moral right to have a relationship with their DGCs. Nice if it happens. No more than that. It will happen if both sides like and are affectionate towards each other. In that case distance is irrelevant.

"DB and I never argued with our parents (and now hardly have anything to do with them)."

So why is there surprise that he's not bothered about seeing her?

And why should that change because he now has a child?

You're all as bad as each other. You all lie to each other constantly. No family issues will ever be resolved without some honesty and some compromising. It seems that none of you want that.

unless there is a foundation of love and affection

of course there is a 'foundation of love and affection'! We're talking about a mother and son who were previously very close.

I have no idea if my mum is over-reacting to this as I have never been a parent cut off by one of their children. But mum seems almost as devastated about this as she was over her bereavement.

Did you ask DB why, if as he alleges your mother is welcome to visit them, he didn't invite her to the Christening?

So why is there surprise that he's not bothered about seeing her?

Cos there's a pretty mammoth difference between maintaining a relationship via a phone call every few weeks and a visit once or twice a year, vs. being told you're not liked and not welcome.

nennypops - his explanation is he knew she wasn't free, she is not religious, why would she be bothered? Which is quite clearly an excuse.

Op you have had some very clear advice on this thread and all you have done is make excuse after excuse and then inflamed the situation by lying to your DM.

You're clearly not listening and ultimately you will now have to reap what you sow.

As I see it life is too short to waste much time in the company of people who are irritating, rude, annoying, etc.
A MIL is NOT a relative with a loving history, they are a the relative of our DH.
Chose to live with our partners but I don't think we have to put up with their relatives if they do not add positive stuff to our lives but actually bring unhappiness in what everform.
So to OP i think your DM just needs to get over it and get on with her life and try and maintain a relationship with her son. She can't expect anything from the DIL.

of course there is a 'foundation of love and affection'!

But not for SiL. Given she is 50% of her adult household then she gets 50% of the say. Also, it is possible that DB is viewing his own family with new eyes. I know that my views on the 'normailty' of my childhood have changed through being with DH. Possibly DB has changed hie views about his mother since his relationship with SiL started.

Relationships with inlaws and parents are not either close or toxic. There is a third way of meh.

mrstara yes!

It's all heartbreaking. Family conflict is very hard and the roots are difficult to reach as new wounds are inflicted. Time is good healer - as is cooling off.

I think not inviting her to the christening was pretty cruel - but your DB needs to stop pissing about and say XYZ happened and this is why we're upset. Or SIL needs to and then maybe your DM can learn how upsetting she's been.

An apology - especially an overdue one - isn't an automatic cleaning of the slate. An apology is for the hurt caused and not to get what you want (more contact in this case). Otherwise it's just meaningless "I've said sorry and they are still not letting me have my way"

She could try: I've upset you deeply. I would welcome the chance to rectify this and apologise for this whenever you're ready. Unless it's genuine and heartfelt though then it's just obvious. We can all tell the difference between a sorry because I have to and a sorry because I really am sorry.

"but your DB needs to stop pissing about and say XYZ happened and this is why we're upset. Or SIL needs to and then maybe your DM can learn how upsetting she's been."

I really don't see this at all, why should they be making overtures of peace when it just lets in someone who "calls a spade a spade"?

Exactly -as Coolcadbury and others say, the problem here is all the lies, half truths, "he said/ she said, I can't tell mum" stuff. My family is exactly like this, and attempts to tell the truth are met with - yep - tears and chest beating and manipulation from the would-be matriarch, whose version of reality must prevail even when everyone knows it is only vaguely reminicent of anyone else's reality... either answer people's (mother, DB, eyc.) questions honestly or say you refuse to get involved at all.

What did your DM's letter say? I'd lay nets it was all about how hurt she os and how she never meant to cause offence, but sorry if your SIL took offence where non was intended - i.e. not a genuine apology. If it is to be resolved everything has to come out, face to face, or everyone will continue to guess amd asdume and feel hard done by and confused.

Boney I mean the DB should stop pretending there isn't a problem when there obviously is one. I think he's fulfilling the SIL wishes of NC but still pretending to his sister and DM that there's no issue. This way amends can't be made and apologies given.

But yes - if they want to go NC they can.

I think though, the OP has tried on a few occasions to retract the spade comment and said this isn't a good description of her DM.

I'm not defending anyone here. Family arguments are awful for everyone involved and hard to untangle. God knows I had a protracted one of my own. I agree with poster who said sometimes you just have to move on and focus on your own life.

"Well I spoke to DB just now who claims that mum is welcome to visit them but never actually comes, therefore he sees that as evidence that she doesn't really care that much. He thought the whole Christening thing was no big deal. But I could tell from the way he was talking that he was being very defensive (ie I don't think for one minute that's the whole truth of the matter)."
I felt a bit about your brother in your OP, Plateofcrumbs, for repeating to SIL what your mother had said. And now he seems to be outright lying/rewriting history. She's not welcome, that's been made perfectly clear.

Plus, your mother "expressed to me she was worried that my brother was taking on a lot - travelling across country to see SIL every weekend and him supporting her with her disability." To me that reads more that she doubted his being up to the task, than she was criticising SIL. I wonder if he took the humph with your mother then, and all this trauma is nothing to do with your SIL at all. She might just think she's supporting her husband's decision of how to relate to his family. After all, if your family "are all hard-wired in conflict avoidance", maybe this 'ooh, SIL's upset by something you said eight years ago' is his way of avoiding telling his mother how hurt he was by her doubts about his being adult enough / man enough to embark on this relationship with now-SIL.

And, by inviting you to the Christening, he placed you in the middle of this particular shitstorm. You had to decide to accept and hurt your mother, or decline and hurt SIL. No, your brother does not come out of this smelling of roses IMO.

OP I think your brother sounds like a spineless turd. He's happy to drop your mum but doesn't want any of the unpleasantness (guilt) of doing that openly.