Family dispute - who is BU?

[Plateofcrumbs]

This could be a long one. I'll try to make it as brief as possible but sorry if I miss any important details in process.

My brother and SIL have been married about 8 years and have a 1 year old. SIL has a physical disability which impacts her mobility, but she is very independent.

When they met, my brother was living with my mum. He was probably a bit of a mummy's boy. SIL-to-be lived a long way away (they met online).

My mum has always been a very practical kind of person who calls a spade a spade. When DB and SIL first got together my mum expressed to me she was worried that my brother was taking on a lot - travelling across country to see SIL every weekend and him supporting her with her disability.

Apparantly she voiced similar concerns to my brother, who repeated them to SIL and they struck a nerve.

Fast forward 8 years and it seems resentment about these comments has been steadily building. Over time mum has been given an increasingly cold shoulder by SIL. She has been given repeated excuses over years to not visit them, or SIL is away/working when mum has visited (they live at other end of country so visits are not regular).

My brother confided in me last year that SIL did not want to see my mum at all. I told him he needed to resolve this and could not keep giving excuses to my mum, especially now they had a son my mum was desperate to meet.

He has now told my mum SIL wants nothing to do with her as 'it is clear you do not like her' (no further explanation provided). My mum is heartbroken and thinks she will never she her grandson again.

Clearly there's a lot of second hand info here but who is BU? Can this be resolved?

See all the sobbing and weeping and it taking a week of crying before she was able to talk to you makes me think that your Mum is harder work than you are letting on.

That can be an incredibly manipulative type of behaviour and might go quite some way to explaining why your brother hasn't spoken to her properly and explained the situation.

Within a week of my DH speaking to his mother, she had changed the situation from her saying some terrible things to me to me having never liked her and going out of my way to make her feel unwelcome in my house.

The first time I saw my PILs after DH spoke to them we had a strained but okay visit for about an hour. Everyone felt a little embarrassed but it was getting easier as the visit went on. It was a start though, and the next better would have been better. Except that after an hour MIL just got up and walked out of the house and then rang DH from the car to say she was never coming back because she had apologised but I was still treating her badly.

And then she spent an entire week crying blaming me but also throwing in things like "everyone must hate me" and ringing her other DIL to say "Sarah says I'm a terrible MIL, do you think so, do you hate me as well?"

And I'd never once said any of that but it made the entire situation worse to have her going about crying and making herself out to be a victim. That shift of the blame onto me, and the shift of focus onto herself as the injured party, really did more damage in the long run than everything else.

I'm a bit aghast at a letter from your mum to SIL.

I am wondering though (I know you shouldn't meddle) if maybe (MNers tell me if I am wrong here!) whether you would be an acceptable go-between/mediator (as unbiased as you can be) between SIL and your mum.

It seems as if there's either a clash or something's been said/done between your mum and SIL that's rocked the boat.

I think your mother has been told the reason actually. She has been told that she makes it clear that she doesn't like your SIL and has upset her.

What my mum has been told (or what she's taken out of the conversation with DB - quite likely as nauticant says she's only picked up fragments) currently bears little resemblance to what I've been told. She's under impression it's to do with the fact she's not been pro-active enough in trying to build a relationship with SIL (eg that they never speak on the phone etc). Whereas as SIL has been actively avoiding seeing/speaking to her, this can hardly be my mum's fault - lack of contact is a symptom here, not the cause.

I don't think there needs to be an exact post-mortum of everything that was said 8 years ago, but she does at least need to understand that the problem stems back to this issue, it's not because mum doesn't phone SIL for cosy chats.

Sorry, the next visit would have been better.

The term "Mummy's Boy" really irritates me actually. Often used to undermine a relationship between a son and his mother ime.

actually you all need to sit down and thrash this out.

family meeting anyone? From your last post and other posts it sounds really convoluted.

If you ALL talked about this (or your mum and SIL) then you'd have none of this silly she says what, you (as sister) said this etc.

All of this helps nothing. I'm sort of getting the feeling here that you're sort of reveling (rightly or wrongly) in this feud as I almost NEVER interfere between my mum and her DIL/my SIL. And if I did interfere I'd be told in no uncertain terms to butt out. that includes 2nd hand info.

sorry if the above is harsh.

Sparkly - it is a low term to use - 'mummy's boy' - my brother could be said to be like this with my mum (he's more close than some sons are) but at least they get on and he never excludes her.

It is an open and healthy relationship.

Compare the two sayings "Daddy's girl" and "Mummy's Boy".

Daddy's girl is perceived as a loving and protective relationship between a father and his dd.

Mummy's boy, is just overwhelmingly negative isn't it? indicating weak, coddled un-masculine man who can't look after himself with an overbearing and obsessive mother

I think SarahandFuck said what many of us are suspecting. Ring any bells OP?

See all the sobbing and weeping and it taking a week of crying before she was able to talk to you makes me think that your Mum is harder work than you are letting on.

I'm far from an uncritical cheerleader for my mum. She's a well meaning person, I would never associate her with things like spitefulness or venomous behaviour. But she is a worrier and can be overly caught up in her own 'bubble'. And as I said earlier she can be weirdly focused on practical stuff - focused on how you'd do something rather than why you'd do it (hence I can see her talking to DB about how much he would need to support SIL, rather than focusing on the fact that he'd do it because he loved her).

Mum has had a rough year after losing her partner so that also needs to be taken into consideration in how emotional she is at the moment.

All of this helps nothing. I'm sort of getting the feeling here that you're sort of reveling (rightly or wrongly) in this feud

Well no this thread doesn't help anything really - as I said at the outset this is all 'he said she said' and no-one can actually adjudicate the rights and wrongs here, nor can I with the partial understand I have.

I started this thread as I feel caught up in the middle and needed some space to talk/think it through in a neutral territory that's not going to cause any damage. Also I find it really helps to see things from other people's POV - as I've said I naturally have sympathy towards my mum and it helps me to get other potential angles.

I hope I'm not revelling in it. It's fairly horrible. Selfishly I'm worried I'm caught up in this too - I'd sent DB some texts in the last couple of weeks (before this came out) that he's uncharacteristically not replied to and I'm getting worried that this exclusion of my mum extends to me as well. I need to call DB for a chat but I'm just trying to get a more balanced perspective - I started off really cross at DB and it won't help matters if I vent my frustration at him.

Plate - I see what you've just written but don't you think his comments (which are bound to go back to SIL) about how much your DB would need to support SIL could/would be incredibly hurtful to your SIL? As someone else says she does not want to feel like a burden.

It's all very well saying your mum is emotional after a bereavement but it sounds really as if your mum doesn't take others (family) feelings into consideration (hence the practical stuff) so I am not surprised SIL has maybe let this build up and has now become resentful.

Plate I would guess from your texts to your DB that he is upset/pained by the texts you've sent him and that's why no response back.

I really would try to take a step backwards and let your mum and SIL try to deal with this no matter what your mum wants you to do.

You are really only damage your relationship with DB and I think you just need to leave DB, SIL and your mum to sort this out themselves. HTH

Oh I don't think you are reveling in it (hard to get a picture from message board) in it either.

I'm just not really sure what any of this has to do with you OP? Surely this is between your DB and DM?

This sound very similar to how my own MIL must perceive me. She has definitely cried to DH behind my back about how 'cold' I am. But it works both ways - she still babies my dh and is very clingy around my kids while really having very little time for me. She never uses our home phone (in case she has to speak to me) - and has undermined me for the last 15 years.

Your SIL sounds like an intelligent, independent woman. If she has made a decision after 8 years of marriage, it is unlikely that this is all based on comments made 8+ years ago. Your DM may be distraught at not seeing her GS (and that does seem harsh when taken out of context) - but really that's your DB and you SIL making that decision.

Your DM should not be writing letters to anyone. She needs to speak to her DS and his wife and rebuild the relationship. If it's broken down completely, then it's in your DB's court to arrange to meet his mother with his son.

I would guess from your texts to your DB that he is upset/pained by the texts you've sent him and that's why no response back.

Texts were nothing to do with this - it was before I found out about conversation between Mum/DB. I was sharing some personal news and asking how they were doing and wishing my nephew happy birthday.

Plate - I see what you've just written but don't you think his comments (which are bound to go back to SIL) about how much your DB would need to support SIL could/would be incredibly hurtful to your SIL? As someone else says she does not want to feel like a burden.

Of course, and I've said this earlier: even meant in the most well meaning way, and even with the greatest diplomatic tact, these kind of comments are potentially hurtful to SIL. I always get the impression from SIL that she fiercely guards her independence (as well she might) and no doubt would resent any implication she might be perceived as a burden. There is no question in my mind that she would be reasonable to have been cross and upset if such comments had got back to her.

Anything else about the severity of the comments, the context etc is pure speculation on my part based on things my mum said to me at the time and the assumption she said similar things to DB.

She never uses our home phone (in case she has to speak to me)

As a general point, is it strange for MIL/FILs not to chat to their SonIL/DIL on the phone? I never chat with my MIL on the phone (MIL always calls my DH on his mobile), but we like each other perfectly well. I never used to talk to my mum's partner on the phone beyond a general 'how are you? before he called mum to the phone. I have rarely spoken to SIL on the phone - I generally speak to DB on his mobile or via text email. It just wouldn't really occur to me.

I do a bit of both plate. I was reading your earlier post about SIL having a closer family where there are sometimes arguments, we are a bit like that. I find DPs family cold fish at times, though there are no big issues going on.

Still MIL does ring the house and will chat with me, always sends me a birthday present and Christmas present etc.,

They just don't all see much of each other and it'd different to my family always was.

Although in my family arguments were quicker to happen, we get over things quicker whereas BIL is a sulker.

I hope this situation is resolvable, I think really your mum needs to have a conversation with SIL on phone or in person, if she will allow that. If she is able to air her grievances maybe this will assist to heal the rift.

OP, do you not think that there might be more to this story than just the comments made 8 years ago. It seems strange that your SIL will try to stop contact with your mum only now (in the last 1-2 years?). I think if this was the only thing that hurt your SIL, then she would have made it clear at the beginning that she doesn't want anything to do with your mum.

I just don't think these issues stem only from these comments. There is more that you don't say or know.

If she has made a decision after 8 years of marriage, it is unlikely that this is all based on comments made 8+ years ago.

This isn't a recent decision - it appears SIL has wanted mum excluded for years. The reason for telling mum now may be as a result of me telling DB (when I first found out) that he couldn't keep avoiding the issue by making excuse after excuse to my mum - something which seems to be going on for a long time.

SIL I think does need to have a conversation with your mother.

Maybe the comments your mum made at the start sounded a lot worse out of context that in the conversation with your brother, feeling like you have been called a burden as your disabled is a biggy I can see that really upsetting and hurting her and if she hasn't felt able to say anything that could really just be it.

I find DPs family cold fish at times, though there are no big issues going on.

Yeah I'm pretty sure we're all perceived as a bunch of cold fish! Which must be strange if that's not what you're used to. I'm always jealous of big loud, warm close-knit families but I'm stuck with the slightly awkward, reserved, introspective bunch I've got

So then why is your mum only reacting now? I find it difficult to understand that she only now noticed that she is being excluded. Where has she been for the last 8 years when SIL was having a problem with her? It seems like if your mum was being excluded since the beginning, she should have attempted to resolve things by now. It sounds like your mum has only now got upset for some reason.

Sorry, I also have a very difficult SIL and understand how things can escalate with time, but I agree with other posters that your mum seems to have caused the issues in this case (at least based on what you've written here). The only thing that can be done is to really for them to have a talk and hopefully your SIL will disclose what really is bothering her and your mum will be able to react appropriately.

I think your SIL is being mean. If she was decent she would endeavour to mend bridges not blow them up. Sounds like she is being extremely difficult and is not at all interested in making peace.

Your brother sounds an idiot for not only causing the rift by blabbing but also by letting it continue. Personally I think if you hear someone has said something you find hurtful then you would check with that person and discuss it before cutting them off. Tone, intention, so much matters and Chinese whispers doesnt' help.

Like I said I think your SIL is using this as an excuse to keep your mum at a distance. I think you should have a big chat with your DB to kick him into sorting it out. Your mum is losing touch with her son and grandson and is so shitty if she doesn't deserve it.

Oh and I agree, it is not at all unusual to not have chats with in laws on the phone. I hope things get better for you and your mum.

"Yeah I'm pretty sure we're all perceived as a bunch of cold fish! Which must be strange if that's not what you're used to."

But surely there's a difference between not being all warm & fuzzy & welcoming, & actually criticising/being derogatory?