Family dispute - who is BU?

[Plateofcrumbs]

This could be a long one. I'll try to make it as brief as possible but sorry if I miss any important details in process.

My brother and SIL have been married about 8 years and have a 1 year old. SIL has a physical disability which impacts her mobility, but she is very independent.

When they met, my brother was living with my mum. He was probably a bit of a mummy's boy. SIL-to-be lived a long way away (they met online).

My mum has always been a very practical kind of person who calls a spade a spade. When DB and SIL first got together my mum expressed to me she was worried that my brother was taking on a lot - travelling across country to see SIL every weekend and him supporting her with her disability.

Apparantly she voiced similar concerns to my brother, who repeated them to SIL and they struck a nerve.

Fast forward 8 years and it seems resentment about these comments has been steadily building. Over time mum has been given an increasingly cold shoulder by SIL. She has been given repeated excuses over years to not visit them, or SIL is away/working when mum has visited (they live at other end of country so visits are not regular).

My brother confided in me last year that SIL did not want to see my mum at all. I told him he needed to resolve this and could not keep giving excuses to my mum, especially now they had a son my mum was desperate to meet.

He has now told my mum SIL wants nothing to do with her as 'it is clear you do not like her' (no further explanation provided). My mum is heartbroken and thinks she will never she her grandson again.

Clearly there's a lot of second hand info here but who is BU? Can this be resolved?

I think a good starting point (for you and/or your mother) is making clear to your brother that you value your relationship with him, want to have a good relationship with SIl and DNeph too and that you are always there for them.

In your place, I would tell him that I hoped he worked it out with your mother and would always try and help if I could, but would be staying out of it unless asked.

I'm not sure why the SIL is being defended so vigorously tbh, yes I get that ILs are annoying but they are family, it's one thing to avoid them but it's completely wrong to get your partner to cut his family out of your lives without explanation. It always stuns me as to why this is seen as acceptable behaviour.

If you have a problem with what someone in your family has said or how they have behaved then challenge the behaviour don't just stop speaking to them.

Oh, I for one do not assume the SIl is being reasonable or fair. She may be, she may not. but she certainly does have the power to withdraw from the relationship, with her child, and the brother seems pretty unconcerned about facilitating it. That means any complaint that she is being unreasonable or unfair is just going to result in a complete breach. The OP and her mother will have to be a bit more emollient, and see what happens.

I think your mum needs to extend more than an olive branch.

Perhaps for your SIL's next birthday she could send her a present with a card, saying something like 'You have been so good for my son. I was concerned that he wasn't mature enough to handle a responsible, grown up relationship when he met you, and you have brought out the best in him, thank you.' or some such....

I came back to see where this had gone, the only other comment I have to add is that I'm really not sure you can intervene between your mother and SIL.
I know my situation is different but if my SIL attempted to intervene then I would have nothing further to do with them, I think at best you can put your views to your db and try and get him to sort it out.

Is your db/SIL saying that your Mother can't see their son? or just not that week? I think your Mothers only option is to go there and stay elsewhere (campervan or travelodge)

Mmme, well whatever the history between the two it would be unreasonable of your mum to expect a relationship with the gc without having a relationsip with the parent. My dc are not objects, they are my children and part of my family, either you make the effort with all of us or you can f**k off quite frankly...

Thank you God that my two 'Mummy'sboys' discuss things with me privately and will never break my trust.

I have lovely,educated, sweet Dil's who they married with open eyes.I would not have dreamed to 'stick in my oar'.

They did use the terms 'too much baggage' regarding previous girlfriends.(No input from us).

Be honest with your mother.She may have to make peace with not seeing this child .At the moment the poor little soul is in danger of becoming the spoils of war or a pawn at least.

Please do not hope for them to ever like each other.Your brother sounds strange.You can not fix anything here.

diddl said yesterday,

Could also be that OPs brother is happy to not see much of his mum & use SIL's relationship (or lack of) as an excuse.

I wonder when exactly did DM make those comments to DB and when did he repeat them to SIL?

Of course it would be offensive to hear your bf's mother suggesting you were in need of being looked after, or in any way some kind of "burden".
I was just thinking, surely DM would have remarked on DB travelling long distance to see SIL before SIL moved in? Clearly your DM made a lot of assumptions. He may have laid it on thick about being attentive and supportive when he visited as any half of a LDR. She may have thought your DB was overdoing it, working all week then a long drive, and out of ignorance thought your future SIL was requiring a lot of care, and voiced her concern without proper thought.

Would SIL have moved into DM's home to live with DB had she heard about those comments?

Sounds to me like SIL and DM were getting on fine but DB then saw fit to tell SIL what Dm had said much earlier before she had even met SIL.

I think your DB has a lot to answer for. For some reason it has suited him to distance himself from DM. I don't blame SIL, who must have been upset, and for all it seems to hinge on what passed 8 years' ago, what has been said in the meantime?

You must be in a very awkward position, and as a bystander can't really be seen to take sides.

It is sad that now DN is on the scene the family has very visibly split.

It sounds like your mum has only now got upset for some reason.

I am sure DN's arrival prompted DM to reconsider why there have been excuses to exclude her all this time.

It's a difficult situation, isn't it?

Having read about the Christening, it seems as if OPs mum has been cut off/out(?)

I'm thinking there must be more to it than is known.

There are so many threads where Mils are awful & dils on here are told that their husband should put them first & go NC.

It seems OP's brother has done that & is still wrong!

OP, how/why did sil end up living with your mum, & why when they moved out, was it so far away?

So then why is your mum only reacting now? I find it difficult to understand that she only now noticed that she is being excluded. Where has she been for the last 8 years when SIL was having a problem with her? It seems like if your mum was being excluded since the beginning, she should have attempted to resolve things by now. It sounds like your mum has only now got upset for some reason.

Mum has of course noticed before that things seemed difficult but I've previously (before I knew the truth of it) convinced her she was being paranoid. As I've said earlier SIL has seemed (at least sometimes) cold/distant with me and my dad as well so I've been very 'oh I think that's just the way she is with everyone, don't worry about it'.

I have never really been clear about the extent to which SIL's disability affects her day-to-day so when excuses have been made about 'oh she's gone to bed' / 'doesn't feel like coming out today', or had seemed withdrawn when we saw her, or didn't want people coming round to the house, I had been inclined to assume that she was worn out, in pain etc. It seemed reasonable to cut her some slack.

I think your DB has a lot to answer for. For some reason it has suited him to distance himself from DM. I don't blame SIL, who must have been upset, and for all it seems to hinge on what passed 8 years' ago, what has been said in the meantime?

I would be very surprised if (for any other reason other than what she has said about SIL) DB wanted to distance himself from DM. I can understand it if he really feels DM has been horrible to his wife, but the idea it is an 'excuse' about something else seem unlikely. DB is lovely and I've always seen him as a peacekeeper, so I think he's been taking the path of least resistance by trying to manage distance between mum and SIL without upsetting mum in process, which was a valiant if inevitably doomed strategy. I can't imagine it was an easy conversation for him to have with mum last week (who wants to make their mum cry?) so I do feel for him.

None of us know exactly what has been said and my mum may being hopelessly naïve in thinking that she has never said anything out of turn, either at the start or over the years.

I think both MIL and DIL ABU.

But there are so many unknowns, and I am a bit surprised that so many seem to have dismissed even the most remote possibility that DIL may also be being unreasonable.

Without doubt, MIL was unwise to voice such opinions- although perhaps it was not as straightforward as simply being bigoted towards those with disabilities- we don't know exactly what she said/how it was said and in what context. It might have been that she was concerned about her son having a LDR and how he would cope with that and the additional aspect of her now DILs disability. Clearly, she was wrong and I can understand how it would have upset her DIL, whatever the real motivations behind the conversation had between OPs DB and his DM. But surely it's possible that DIL has taken it to heart too much. Or is using it as an excuse. Or that DB laid it on a bit thickly for whatever reason. We don't know.

As I said, it would have been best kept to herself- but I think the OPs DB would have been wiser to keep this to himself too, as it was bound to cause unnecessary hurt. He would have been better to explain to his DM that her comments were hurtful and unless the same or similar were repeated to him/DIL, then I think that should have been that.

That said, I don't think we can categorically lay all the blame at MIL's feet either. For all we know SIL may be being unduly harsh. Of course, she is not obliged to like her MIL or even to see her- but to exclude her completely without actually telling her that was the case, or giving her an explanation or even a chance to make amends seems a bit harsh to me. Sometimes you do need to spell it out to people.

As for holding the christening then asking his sister not to tell her mum, that's ridiculous and seems like trying to be deliberately hurtful. Which if she is doing it for revenge, makes her as bad her MIL.

I am married to someone with a disability. I categorically would not want this for either of my children.

Would I be being tactless to say so? Of course. Would it earn me the lasting enmity of my children in law (should they be disabled) yes, of course. But only if it was repeated to them ...

We are allowed as parents to say things that are brutally honest to our children. In fact, it is fair to say, that this is our obligation. It does not mean that that should be repeated.

I don't think the situation is reparable. If I were your Mum, OP, I would be practising tinkly laughs and trying to make things right subtly but no overt breast beating. Most of all, it is none of your business. If you act as an intermediary here, you are likely to get stung from both ends. Don't get involved.

"None of us know exactly what has been said"

Which of course is the problem.

At the end of the day, SIL doesn't want to see MIL.

That doesn't-or shouldn't stop OPs brother seeing his mum, & taking his son with him, if he wants to!

"I am married to someone with a disability. I categorically would not want this for either of my children."-bit difficult to tell them that when you have done it yourself!
Are you also talking about their other parent??

My mother said some fairly awful things about my dh (then boyfriend) which really hurt me, and which I told dh because he was/is my best friend and so we talked about everything. It did damage their relationship for years which made life difficult for me. In retrospect maybe I shouldn't have, but I'm not sure that keeping secrets from your husband/wife is terribly healthy either. Plus sometimes things just come out.

My mother has said fairly awful things about pretty much everyone at times, but she has virtually no awareness of this, even if you point it out. She's not an unkind person she just seems to struggle at times with not saying what she thinks, and sometimes what she thinks is pretty unforgivable.

She was particularly difficult with my brother's first partner, and she has started to say stuff about his new wife too. I just don't think she has a clue really, she has quite sexist views about how women should behave and my brother is totally her favourite (poor him ) so she is likely to be far more critical of his partner/wife than me and my sisters husbands, as they get forgiven way more than is reasonable, even when she doesn't like them that much!

Sorry to resurrect this thread but needed an "aaargh!" moment.

So in the last couple of months nothing much has been resolved. Mum sent a letter to DB/DSil to which DB has never properly responded (ie he's acknowledged they received the letter, that's about it). I have been trying to stay out of the whole thing.

I think I mentioned in earlier posts that I'd been to the Christening of my nephew but my mum wasn't invited and I never told mum we were there/that there was a Christening for fear of upsetting her.

Just had an email from mum this morning, desperately upset: she has found out (via way of a family friend) about the Christening and that I was there.

I'm at a loss. Just tried to contact DB to tell him he needed to speak to Mum as I'm not prepared to get caught up in this any further, but he was literally just getting on plane to go visit DSILs family for Easter, so god knows when I'll hear back from him.

if your mother mentions it to her, call a spade a spade, and tell her she needs to apologise and come up with a list of things she likes about her daughter in law.
You don't need to be polite with blunt people.

agghh, "if your mother mentions it to YOU" was what i meant to type

I don't think you can really say much to your mother about the DB/SIl issue, since you don't know the full story there either. All you can do is explain why you didn't tell her about the christening and why you attended even though she wasn't invited.

I feel terrible now. Maybe I should have refused to go to the Christening if mum wasn't invited but that would have been clearly taking sides. I thought the 'white lie' of pretending it didn't happen was the best way to go.

Mum is really completely devastated about this whole thing which is heartbreaking.

Incidentally I wish I'd never used the phrase "calls a spade a spade" as that really doesn't capture what she's like but everyone (understandably) keeps picking up on it.

No, it was right to go I think. All that would have happened if you refused would have been that your DB and SIL would have distanced themselves from you as well. I don't think you should have sacrificed your relationship with them just to make a point about your mother.

Do you know what your mother's letter said?

I think there comes a point where try as you might not be able to stay out of it much longer and just tell your mum what you do know as fact without speculation.
It may pisa your brother off, you may need to remind her what she said about sil all those years ago while making it clear you are not entirely sure whether that is the comments it relate to or not.
Sorry but like it or not you did become too involved when it came to the christening. You have kept it from her so she may also see it as you knowing more than you are telling.

Not that I'm saying you were wrong to attend I am a bit torn over that as I'm not entirely sure what I would have done in that situation.

I suppose a lot would depend on what was actually in the letter she sent to your brother.

If it was a full and sincere apology for her previous comments about his (now) wife, then it's a good first step in trying to get the issue resolved. However, if it was along the lines of 'I'm sorry I said those things but it's only because I care about you so much' then it's understandable that your brother won't have wanted to do any more than acknowledge that he'd received it.

I think that all you can realistically do is explain again to your mother that you won't be taking sides and will not be drawn into this.

I don't think it is fair that DB has done little more than acknowledge receipt of the letter - Mum is currently holding on in hope that DB/DSil will soften. If the letter has not changed anything or even exacerbated the situation, DB at least owes it to her to make that clear and let her know where she stands - it's kind of been left as "I'll be in touch" but nothing further has been said.

On attending the Christening: the more I think about it the more I think I did the right thing in attending - but that I shouldn't have maintained the pretence of being ignorant to the whole issue more recently.

Poor mum, she is all alone, her DS has cut her off and now she's going to find out her DD has been lying to her - I feel wretched about it.