Family dispute - who is BU?

[Plateofcrumbs]

This could be a long one. I'll try to make it as brief as possible but sorry if I miss any important details in process.

My brother and SIL have been married about 8 years and have a 1 year old. SIL has a physical disability which impacts her mobility, but she is very independent.

When they met, my brother was living with my mum. He was probably a bit of a mummy's boy. SIL-to-be lived a long way away (they met online).

My mum has always been a very practical kind of person who calls a spade a spade. When DB and SIL first got together my mum expressed to me she was worried that my brother was taking on a lot - travelling across country to see SIL every weekend and him supporting her with her disability.

Apparantly she voiced similar concerns to my brother, who repeated them to SIL and they struck a nerve.

Fast forward 8 years and it seems resentment about these comments has been steadily building. Over time mum has been given an increasingly cold shoulder by SIL. She has been given repeated excuses over years to not visit them, or SIL is away/working when mum has visited (they live at other end of country so visits are not regular).

My brother confided in me last year that SIL did not want to see my mum at all. I told him he needed to resolve this and could not keep giving excuses to my mum, especially now they had a son my mum was desperate to meet.

He has now told my mum SIL wants nothing to do with her as 'it is clear you do not like her' (no further explanation provided). My mum is heartbroken and thinks she will never she her grandson again.

Clearly there's a lot of second hand info here but who is BU? Can this be resolved?

Jesus Sarah I am so so very sorry for the way your MIL treated you. I absolutely understand why you went non-contact. I am also sorry that other relationships are strained. Frankly if you were my SIL and I had heard what my mum had said to you re your babies I would have taken her to task sharpish and forced her to apologise and spend the rest of her life trying to make it up to you.

That's awful Sarah, I'm absolutely aghast at that. Thank goodness you don't see her anymore, that's horrendous.

Thank you both.

I'm not trying to say that the OP's Mum has said anything like that, but if there has been a constant drip of negative comments beyond those first ones it really can erode a relationship.

I can understand a parent wanting to check their child was ready for a serious relationship. My Dad took me aside on my wedding day to ask me if I really wanted to go through with it and said we could be out the door, back in the car and away before anyone knew we were gone. And this was just minutes before I walked down the aisle. I know it's normal for a parent to worry.

But it depends on what the OP's Mum said to her son, how he then repeated it to his wife and what else the OP's Mum might have said since then to her DIL.

I can see how this time of thing wears away at relationships and having been a part of one that was ground down for so long I really mean it when I say it's hard to fix. If you snap something in half you at least have a chance of gluing it back together but if you grind it to dust there's nothing left to fix.

Sorry, that should say "this type of thing'' not 'this time of thing'.

why doesn't your mum pick up the phone and speak to her?

How is he stopping her from apologising?

Because he hasn't told her explicitly what she has done wrong. Perhaps mum really should be able to make the connection between the early comments and the current situation, she might be being unreasonable by acting the innocent. But on the other hand she might have completely forgotten she ever mentioned any such thing and be reasonably baffled by the current situation.

She is prepared to extend an olive branch (maybe just selfishly motivated to see GS) but at the moment she can only really offer a general 'sorry for anything I have done' style apology.

I feel very conflicted as I know more than I can let on to mum.

Really you need to step back and let your brother sort this out; there is no reason why he can't take grandson to visit his mother on their own is there? Or is SIL preventing this from happening? Perhpas your brother doesn't particularly want to see his own mother?

Your brother is actually sounding rather weak now and relying on you to be the 'go between' which puts you in a very unfair position.

You mother might not have done anything 'specific' for which she should apologise, just her general behaviour might be enough to have upset your SIL over a period of many years. I do understand this is very difficult for you as your loyalty will be to your own mother but I am in a very, very similar situation and I have learned to just stand back and not 'engage' with either side.

why doesn't your mum pick up the phone and speak to her?

It's probably best she writes a letter or something - mum is too much of a mess at the moment to talk to her, I think it would just make matters worse. It took her a week from the initial conversation with my DB to being able to hold it together enough to speak to me, and even then she couldn't do that without sobbing down the phone.

I'm not trying to say that it's reasonable for mum to be so hurt or that she is in any way more hurt than SIL has been over the years. It's just a matter of fact she is an emotional mess at the moment which is impacting how she deals with it.

Doesn't your SIL have enough stress with her disability, never mind this issue with your mother too?

It's none of your business, not everyone can get along in life - leave all well alone & get on with your own life

Sounds like your mum is also possibly using you as a gossip/sounding board partner to bitch about SIL? Time to stop that...

I don't understand all the secrecy. Your brother has told you why your SIL doesn't want your mum to visit, but has told you not to tell your mum the reason? Why? This does not sound like a healthy family dynamic. If it is genuinely the case that DB and SIL want an apology and your mum has no idea what she is apologising for - well, that's not going to work is it? You need to encourage your BIL to tell your mum what the problem is, and if he won't then if it was me I would say something.

Having said that, it seems unlikely that your SIL is taking such extreme action in cutting contact without good reason - I suspect that there is more than one comment made nearly a decade ago and your mum is being somewhat disingenuous.

Tbh I think that the bottom line is your brother needs to man up and establish exactly what your SIL's issues are with your mum and communicate them to her so she knows what she's fine and has the best chance of putting them right.

If it can't be fixed then your SIL would probably be UR to not let your DH bring GS to visit your mum if he wants to, but it's a very long way and he's still tiny - from a purely practical POV your mum needs to accept that there are going to be limits.

I think the not letting your mum know as it the christening or visit for GS birthday are really unkind, but it does make me wonder if there's a lot more to this than you know about. I can't imagine someone would do that over one comment from 8 years ago having lived with someone and apparently got on ok with them since.

*sorry, brother, not BIL

I think older people often have a skewed opinion regarding issues such as these because as we all know not so many years ago our society was not exactly inclusive regarding those with additional needs. My own parents and in laws have come out with some utter shockers that I have had to address.

That said, your Mum now needs to apologise fully and from the heart and admit she was ignorant. It's no use weeping and wringing her hands about it, she's got to make some proactive moves. Agree your brother shouldn't have told his DW but then again could he have been angry and hurt too and wanted to discuss it with the person he was closest to?

Depending on how he presented it to your SIL, I don't think he was wrong to tell her the comments your mum made. He And SIL are a family unit - I wouldn't like the idea of my DH hiding things his mum said about me to protect his mum from the consequences of her actions.

Your db seems to be a bit infantilised by your family - I think you called him 'a young lad in his 20s', 'a mummy's boy'. He's a grown adult. Maybe these attitudes to him are grating on them as well?

I don't understand all the secrecy. Your brother has told you why your SIL doesn't want your mum to visit, but has told you not to tell your mum the reason?

No the only reason I can't tell mum is because it's not fair on anyone for me to tell her I knew about this rift some time ago. DB was somewhat forced to tell me last year as I was trying to arrange a joint visit for me and Mum to meet GS, and DB had to tell me mum was not welcome.

Neither me nor DB could reasonably tell her at that particular time as she had just lost her long term partner, so I just had to make excuses for why visiting plans had not worked out.

I feel like I read this differently. Was this your brothers first serious relationship? I wonder if after he met this woman online and began a relationship your mum did express concern that he was taking on more than he was emotionally ready for? I think its ok to have the conversation as his mum because he was maybe quite immature? Noone was to know they would get married.
I think your brother should have swallowed it and illustrated any disability was irrelevant. But he didn't and he told his wife. Which was wrong. Why hurt her. I agree whoever suggested above it smacks a bitof rebellion and Oooh going against mummy. Just another possible perspective.

My MIL told my husband to stay well away from me because I had three children. She made it quite clear that she thought he was stupid for getting involved with me. However, he has mental health issues and she was genuinely worried about him.

I only know because I walked in on that discussion.

We don't see her much now, but not because of that. She changed her mind after a while and I completely forgave her for a horrible comment she made before she even really got to know me and a part of me even understands it. I might be concerned if my child got involved with someone with three children when they struggled with every day life.

I bet there is more to this. If it is all just about the original comments and it happened exactly as how you said then it seems really stupid to hold a grudge for this long. I bet there is a hell of a lot more going on that you are aware of though.

Or maybe not, no one but them really knows do they?

bit infantilised by your family - I think you called him 'a young lad in his 20s', 'a mummy's boy.

For sure at the time (early 20s, living at home with mum, still quite dependent on her looking after him). He and mum were pretty close. Context for how mum was feeling at time - it was all wrapped up in the whole 'empty nest' thing.

I think your mother has been told the reason actually.

She has been told that she makes it clear that she doesn't like your SIL and has upset her.

Why does she need to know more than that to apologise? Demanding specifics and raking over old grounds and past hurts is constructive for noone and will simply cause more trouble. It will also sound to your DB and SIL like you are implying that your mother hasn't done anything wrong.

Your mother has more than enough information to apologise. She needs to write a letter saying sorry, saying that any hurt caused was unintentional and asking if they can make a fresh start with a clean slate. And she needs to promise that she will do her best not to interfere or be critical and apologise if your SIL feels like she has been in the past.

Incidentally do you have a partner and a family? Did she try and interfere with your relationship when it was beginning?

If not I think you may find that your mother treats you both very differently. If you haven't experienced her as a smothering parent I don't think you'll realize how hard this may have made things for him.

And it does sound smothering. Empty nest syndrome or not, a parent who struggles with letting go is not a very nice thing to go through.

When was the last time your mum saw your brother or dgs.

I think you are all expecting too much from your sil. It doesn't matter that she doesn't like your mum or even any of your family if that's the case. There is no law that says you have to like your in laws or even see them.

(Both dh and I hate all of our family on both sides and never see any of them unless we absolutely have to for some reason or another).

Best just to go forward with your brother bringing the grandchild to visit your mum or your mum asking to visit but booking her own hotel. I wouldn't want anyone staying in my house (had that in my first marriage and wouldn't do it again, my ex mil was a nightmare).

Your sil doesn't have to be there for your mum to have contact with her grandchild and I'd just leave it at that.

How reliable is the story you're hearing from your DM? My DM called me in a panic a few weeks back and the story she told had only the remotest familial resemblance to the story she's been told. Because she was upset, she only listened to fragments of what she'd been told and made up various details to fill in the blanks.