To want dd to leave school at 16

[ISBN1966]

Which of course won't be possible, as the school leaving age has been raised.

She is in year 10 right now. She does no work at home or at school and hasn't since leaving primary. She is late for school 3 days out of 5, is rude to many of her teachers and takes days off when she feels like it. She'll probably scrape c grade passes in English, Geography, Sociology and Drama but will fail everything else.

I want her to leave school and try to get a job. In fact I'd like the school leaving age to be 14, like it was when my dad was young. Maybe I could persuade someone to give her a job, sweeping up hair in a hair salon, clearing plates in a restaurant or working as a cleaner. She hasn't got much to recommend her except cheapness as minimum wage legislation wouldn't apply.

She needs the world to teach her a lesson that you tend to get out of life what you put in in terms of effort, unless you are unlucky with your health. We have been unable to communicate this to her - she does sod all but still has a comfortable room in a private house (ours) access to nice food, family holidays, clothes, make-up etc.

I dread the thought if her staying on while making an utterly half arsed attempt at some pointless post 16 qualification.

Viking - all dd's problems have manifested in adolescence. No problems at all in primary. And really, really no problems with social communication. If anything I would say she has a gift for friendship. Her friends are popular, beautiful girls with strong personalities and strong values. It is them pursuing dd for friendship and company, not the other way around. She holds her own in any group.

What would I suggest?

As I said up-thread, I'd leave her with a bed and her school uniform and make her earn everything back.
At the end of the day we are talking about a young girl who to me sounds like she is screaming out for your attention and love. You are caught in a cycle of negatively and I'd put money on the fact that she knows you have given up on her and feels like you don't love her.

The bigger issue is that her behaviour will probably get worse as she gets older and you no longer have the energy to intervene.

Perhaps you should put her in care when you go on holiday OP

I've read some stupid and uniformed things on Mumsnet but that really takes the biscuit.

You do know that short term foster care isn't like a massive, free crèche for mardy arsed teenagers whose parents want a holiday don't you giggle?

If you don't believe me, try ringing up social services and tell the duty social worker that you've found a late availability to Majorca, so could you drop round the kids at 6pm on the way to the airport? Once the person has finished laughing, it will be a two word response. Second word 'off'

"If you don't believe me, try ringing up social services and tell the duty social worker that you've found a late availability to Majorca, so could you drop round the kids at 6pm on the way to the airport? Once the person has finished laughing, it will be a two word response. Second word 'off'"

All kids should.stay in school.till there 16 then do 2 years national service!!!

My sister was like this and my parents at the end of their tether.

At the worst point, my mother was in the middle of puppy training classes and decided to use the idea of positive reinforcement. Everything that my sister agreed to do and carried through with was rewarded. It took months and it felt like bribery and bloody unfair to the rest of us but it worked. My sister had gotten so used to constant negativity that she had just tuned it all out.

I remember my mother gritting her teeth but she was determined that everything that came out of her mouth would be positive and that positive behaviour would be rewarded and negative behaviour ignored. Non attendance at school wasn't even talked about so she got no attention for it. Dunno if she just got bored or genuinely reacted to the positive stuff but it certainly seemed to work.

Hello OP

I think chippednailvarnish has a point, my ds2 said he felt like we'd given up and didn't love him anymore.
He wasn't the same as your dd, no school refusal but his condition certainly pushed us beyond reason.
Even if you tell them all the time, if they know they aren't the same as others they feel lost and alone.
Your dd isn't in control no matter how bolshy she comes across.

Compos: it was a sarky response to the flippant remark made by the OP...OBVIOUSLY the child will not be allowed to stay in short term foster care just so he

Home educate, let her hang with you, see what she us interested in. You are right about pointless post 16 courses prolonging the issue .

Op, you seem to be clinging on to her getting those gcse's.... Do you honestly think she will turn up for them?

She has to want to

Also, you mention violence a lot. What has she done previously?

Her parents can go on holiday! Doh!!! Funnily enough-children in foster care exhibit similar behaviour-has OP ever thought of asking foster carers/sevice for advice as to what they do in those situations?!!

What i'm seeing is a parent comstantly making excuses for their child and refusing to see the situation as it is. OP refuses to see her child as she is and instead carries on with this pretence that her child is super gifted and so intelligent-no wonder the child isn't getting the right kind of support!

I don't think the Op is listening, this whole thread is about blaming her DD.

OP, I was kind of like this at school. I made a half-arsed attempt at GCSE's but did get enough to go to college and attend a vocational course. Didn't finish it though, dropped out before the first year was up.

I ended up working in bars and hotels for a few years and I was good at it. Eventually I got a temp job for a Telecommuniations company as I wanted more sociable hours after years of evening & weekend work.

Although academically lazy, I am smart and I have the gift of the gab. This enabled me to land a permanent job and then I worked my way up.

I now work in IT, in a senior role that would normally require a degree, but because of my experience and gift of the gab I can do the job.

All is not lost on your DD, have faith, she'll grow up eventually, and it sounds like she'll do well when she does,

Lots of blame yes.

OP if you are adamant that theres no chance at all of your daughter being on the autistic spectrum (despite several flags) why do you think she is being this way?

I think I've read one of the OP's threads before. IIRC her DD is violent and the majority of it is directed towards her. Something to do with being mixed race and hating the person that contributed to the white (and as she sees it, ugly) part of her?

I think this thread is posted in the wrong place. Most people (including me) just won't get the life that the OP and her family have been living all these years. She definitely sounds like a very troubled girl, but maybe giving up and detaching is all the OP has left to protect her other children?

Just a thought.

And when I say 'giving up' I mean giving up trying to get through to her, not giving up on the child herself.

Where does your DD see herself, when she grows up? Does she have any ambition or interests that she wants to pursue?

Many FE colleges to take students from 14. If you can find her motivation, even if it is just make up, there might be options there that appeal t her better and make her want to get out of bed.

To be honest, whether or not she has friends, she sounds quite dysphoric.

scrambled yes think I remember now. And agree.

Protect your other dc, of course, but where is her dad in all this?

OP, being 14 is horrible and it sounds as though your dd has got herself in a rut and is just not doing anything she doesn't feel like doing, and both you and the school know she's stubborn enough that any attempt to 'make' her do stuff will backfire.

Have you talked to her about what her plans and dreams are for her future? (not lecturing about consequences of not getting an education, but just asking and listening?) She's obviously not seeing the point of education at present, so what is her alternative plan? And if she doesn't have one, what support would she like in finding out what she was put on the planet to do, what thrills her and floats her boat? Try not to give any reality checks if she comes up with something, but identify what the steps would be to achieving her dream. Try to behave as though you have total confidence in her and expect her to succeed.

If she can start to see passing some GCSEs as a very boring but necessary ticket to something she really wants she sounds as though she has the ability and strong personality to pull it out of the bag.

This sounds incredibly difficult. Friends of mine have a child (eldest of 6) who has been a school refuser since age 9; this child is now a teen and parents want to withdraw from school and seek employment. Forgive the stilted way that's written but I don't want to say anything that could possibly out the person or the family.

I like your idea of the holiday with volunteering work. Different friends of mine took their kids overseas (Ghana) for two weeks. With a group of like minded people they dug a well, built a toilet/shower block and refurbished a village school. The children (of the volunteers) donated old toys, pens, paper, glitter.... it was eye opening and very rewarding for everyone involved.

As another poster said on the first page,
"And the fines may be significant, but she's got you over a barrel. Put make-up and clothes money towards the fines."

You have to climb off that barrel.
Tell her she gets nothing but food from you until she attends school on time and behaves in class. No new clothes, no makeup, no phone. Save the money in a fines fund towards the time when you have to pay, and post up a list of what you are saving so she can see you are serious.

If she can't concentrate on school she won't be able to concentrate on work either. And if she grows up expecting something for nothing she's going to get into serious trouble.

Giggle - I've not made any excuses for dd. Also not said she is 'super gifted', just bright (she is).

OP if you do what you are saying then where do you see this all in say 5 or 10 years time. sorry but she isn't just going to wake up one day and smell the coffee. MN is full of posters talking about their 20 yr old that cant hold down a job, sponges off them at home, etc. she is heading this way. you have a window of opportunity now in the next 2 years to turn this around. that is you, not her. you are the adult here. first thing, is it hormonal, get this checked out with your GP. second let her get sent to the pupil referral unit, why should she be a special case. deprive her of her pals for a bit. positive reinforcement. she goes to school she does her work she gets a phone/make up ipod if not then she doesn't. you really have to take charge here. throwing your hands up is not an option. who picks up after her as an adult. why society of course and why should we when with a lot of effort now this can be sorted.

She will see all her friends gain exams and move on with life.... Without her. Maybe ask her where she thinks she will fit in with them in a few yeRs when they are all employed/students and have financial independence.....she will be left behind and they won't want to know. What's her plan for herself?

you cant ask a 16 year old that Joules. sorry but they all think they are immortal and that the world does now and will always in the future revolve around them. that is the nature of being young. we grow up and most of us grow out of it. she most likely believes that the world owes her. she will leave school get a fantastically high paying job have a house, partner, family, great life - in her own mind that is. I would get her volunteering at the foodbank or somewhere similar so she can see what the world is like. plus you have to start taking things off her especially things that cost money.