To want dd to leave school at 16

[ISBN1966]

Which of course won't be possible, as the school leaving age has been raised.

She is in year 10 right now. She does no work at home or at school and hasn't since leaving primary. She is late for school 3 days out of 5, is rude to many of her teachers and takes days off when she feels like it. She'll probably scrape c grade passes in English, Geography, Sociology and Drama but will fail everything else.

I want her to leave school and try to get a job. In fact I'd like the school leaving age to be 14, like it was when my dad was young. Maybe I could persuade someone to give her a job, sweeping up hair in a hair salon, clearing plates in a restaurant or working as a cleaner. She hasn't got much to recommend her except cheapness as minimum wage legislation wouldn't apply.

She needs the world to teach her a lesson that you tend to get out of life what you put in in terms of effort, unless you are unlucky with your health. We have been unable to communicate this to her - she does sod all but still has a comfortable room in a private house (ours) access to nice food, family holidays, clothes, make-up etc.

I dread the thought if her staying on while making an utterly half arsed attempt at some pointless post 16 qualification.

If she won't go to school when you tell her, what makes you think she'll go to work?

I don't think GCSEs do unlock the future to be honest: I know a lot of people who arsed about at school who either did just well enough to go on to a levels or university or who retook them at college later as an adult.

I often think I wasted my life by working hard as a kid.

Anyway sorry OP! I really feel for you, I have a senior manager position I a secondary school and rang home about a student yesterday. The poor mother was sobbing and my heart went out to her. The girl comes from a lovely family but has just flown off the rails - no one knows why. She's had loads of help from CAHMs but if anything it's been counter-productive!

I am sure you love her and it must be heartbreaking. Any chance at all of her Maths? As if she can get English plus maths plus three others she should be ok ... x

Kepek, I took her out of school for six months once. She had stopped work in school completely, her exercise books were actually empty, and the teachers didn't seem to notice. I thought I'd try home schooling while I looked for a new school place for her. She showed enthusiasm for the project for as long as it took us to make a decision and deregister her from the school. Then she refused to get out of bed, refused to do a stroke of work, and basically lay around the house until I found her a new school place.

Oh god! I am so with you here! I just about think I've cracked it, then she finds a new tactic to squirm out. DD1 has to be cajoled into attending detentions for being late, not wearing uniform, not doing homework, on a good day DD1 will develop some sudden illness or invent some desperate emergency, on a bad day she won't even bother with an excuse and will just not turn up.

She is pleasant enough when she wants to be, but is very clever, and emotionally manipulative. It's exhausting trying to keep her on the right path - I just don't think I have the energy for another three years!!

Worra I think OP wants her daughter to understand the physical hard nature of many MW jobs - and how shabbily you are sometimes treated - and realise how cosseted she is at school.

My parents sort of did the same with me as a year 11, when I had left school for the long summer after GCSEs. They arranged voluntary work for me. It was actually quite damaging to our relationship as I was in hindsight bullied by the women at the stables and I hugely resented them for it. However I was a pleasant teen! The OP sounds just dully desperate.

Dazzled - no, she will fail maths. She does no work. In maths that matters.

I know it does - I was just trying to sympathise, sorry.

Worra I think OP wants her daughter to understand the physical hard nature of many MW jobs - and how shabbily you are sometimes treated - and realise how cosseted she is at school.

I think you might have misread my question

I asked if the OP's DD won't go to school when she's told, what makes her think she'll go to work?

The OP mentions trying to get a job for her DD...not even her DD getting herself a job.

You sound like you gave up on her a long time ago. I find your attitude toward her very depressing.

I don't understand the point you're making, Dazzled?

Are you saying these people in your first paragraph went on to get high school quals and go onto university? If so, that proves my point. If not, what do you mean?

Also, even if you do regret working hard, I can't see how someone in the OP's DD's situation is going to be better off long-term than you, if she continues down this track.

The only way she'll be OK if she continues like this, is if her parents look after her and put a roof over her head for the rest of their lives. And then when they're gone, what then?

Dazzled - I was a lazy student (not anywhere as bad as dd though) it took me flunking A levels and working in restaurants/shops for six months, while paying my own rent and board and being completely utterly skint, to send me screaming back into learning. Some people need to experience poverty and doing a shit badly paid job to understand what a privilege and a pleasure education is.

She is very unlikely to get an apprenticeship without a good reference from school. Why would anyone want to employ her?

I think an appointment with a careers/employment adviser (preferably one who works with NEETS not a school based one) to tell her the reality of what life is like if she continues to make no effort and not attend school.

She will either work it out or not. Lots of kids are a nightmare until mid way through year 11 when reality hits that's its now or never.

That sounds mean - DD1 is a lovely lovely girl, she jut has no interest in school, and has absolutely no ability to match actions to consequences, nor can she see beyond the present minute - she cant plan out the next ten minutes - foreseeing her future is well beyond her! I just don't understand it how she really does not get the concept of time. I think this is part of her problem with school.

I know the sheer desperation of dealing with a school refusing child. Though in some ways I think it was easier for me, because dd was actually suicidal so it was pretty clear to everybody involved why this was happening. (never thought I'd utter "easier" and "suicidal" in the same sentence- but you see what I mean: at least there was some kind of explanation).

It wears you down. When they're this age and size, you can't actually do anything without their cooperation, and yet everybody seems to expect you to Do Something. But an awful lot of teens do seem to work their way out either end eventually. I hope it happens sooner rather than later, ISBN. In the meantime, you need to look after yourself.

If she has been so badly behaved, why is she still getting things like holidays and make up bought for her?

Chipped - any suggestions on what the OP can do, then?

I know ISBN - I was agreeing with you.

Worra sorry, I meant I thought the OP was speaking in a hypothetical sense not an actual "I am going to do this" - do you see what I mean?

Japanese what I mean is that a smattering of GCSEs won't make much difference to someone on a non-academic route and only a small difference to those on an academic one. Only the very brightest - I suppose those destined for russell group educations - are impacted by what GCSEs they get. And even then it isn't an irretrievable situation: I did my revision and got excellent GCSEs and A levels and degree from RG university and yet I have seen people my age who pratted about at school achieve identical things but a few years later, as mature students.

It's isn't the be-all and end - all.

Chippednail, the OP explained that above: presumably family funds are limited and the dd is using the fines as a threat to hold her at ransom.

OP, it may be that if you speak to the EWO you will be able to show them that you are trying your hardest; if they take that on board they won't fine you and you will be able to call your dd's bluff.

If she's lazy and a poor attender at school, why would you imagine that she would be any better in a minimum wage job?Doesn't sound likely.

Chipped - it's been three years of embarrassing phone calls, letters home, tantrums, anguish, a change of school, GP appointments, CAMHS appointments, hopes raised (she's been identified as gifted and talented!) and dashed (but is refusing to attend the extension sessions organised by the school :-() , hideous meetings with teachers she's bullied and humiliated, threats from the attendance officer, morning after morning after morning of us asking/pleading with her yo get up for school.... and on and on. Yes I have sort of given up a bit at this point. I have an autistic child who also needs me, and a hard working and clever 10 year old. You can only do so much.

If she does wake up after leaving school, she could do ou courses, no entry qualifications required, although obviously application and self motivation essential as she would not be policed by anyone.

Just a thought ?

I'm a bit worried about this really.... She has threatened us with ongoing school refusal if we don't buy her make up. And she will see it through, because she's like that. She's done it before.

It sounds like there's more going on with her than just a dislike of school.

How are you allowing her to get away with blackmail?

Tell the school she's blackmailing you. Just stay open and honest with them and you won't get fined.

Chipped - we can't leave her behind when we go on a family holiday. She is only 14.

She also has bad acne and won't leave the house without her makeup. I'm sympathetic on this issue. The other things less so. But you know, three years covers a lot of Christmases and birthdays too and we have a big family, who give her stuff. And sometimes she's not completely hateful to us and there is a sort of truce. It's very grim to be punishing and withholding for years on end when it doesn't seem to be having much impact on behaviour.