To want dd to leave school at 16

[ISBN1966]

Which of course won't be possible, as the school leaving age has been raised.

She is in year 10 right now. She does no work at home or at school and hasn't since leaving primary. She is late for school 3 days out of 5, is rude to many of her teachers and takes days off when she feels like it. She'll probably scrape c grade passes in English, Geography, Sociology and Drama but will fail everything else.

I want her to leave school and try to get a job. In fact I'd like the school leaving age to be 14, like it was when my dad was young. Maybe I could persuade someone to give her a job, sweeping up hair in a hair salon, clearing plates in a restaurant or working as a cleaner. She hasn't got much to recommend her except cheapness as minimum wage legislation wouldn't apply.

She needs the world to teach her a lesson that you tend to get out of life what you put in in terms of effort, unless you are unlucky with your health. We have been unable to communicate this to her - she does sod all but still has a comfortable room in a private house (ours) access to nice food, family holidays, clothes, make-up etc.

I dread the thought if her staying on while making an utterly half arsed attempt at some pointless post 16 qualification.

I still think you're missing the point, Dazzled.

We're talking zero sum here: high school qualifications or no high cool qualifications.

Not 'good qualifications' versus 'bad qualifications'. Or 'qualifications obtained during high school' versus 'as a mature student'.

We're talking actually getting the qualifications at all.

Somebody who does not have those qualifications at all is hugely disadvantaged, whether they're academic or not.

Even just getting an entry-level, low paying, go-nowhere job will be very, very difficult with NO qualifications at all. Why would a prospective employer take a risk?

And it maps the rest of your life out for you. You will always be at the bottom of the heap, earning a pittance and have feeer opportunities, unless you have the gumption and attitude to pull yourself up.

Where I live there are some programmes for 14 year-olds to spend at least part of their time in an FE college. Is anything like that available for you? It not necessarily ideal and might bring different problems but maybe worth considering?

what do you do as her parent to correct her behaviour? If she is like this at school how will she be sweeping hair at a salon - equally feckless possibly but with some cash to waste as she has no self discipline installed in her?

After reading your last post, you have an asd child - is it possible she may have pathological demand avoidance? Sensory issues? Overload? Related to autistic spectrum. She may even be a very high functioning aspergirl? Camhs are notoriously shit at picking this type of stuff up.

why isn't she in the pupil referral unit? She is getting everything her own way, and that isn't good for little kids (which is what she is).

she will know that her teachers are fed up with her (they can't be blamed) and the manipulation is clearly getting worse.

no, I know a PRU doesn't mean regular beatings, but maybe they might just be able to get her to use what is between her ears.

So she's actually getting up and going into school quite regularly?

I think you need to toughen up..... None of this 'she's got is over a barrel' stuff. It's probably too late tho. You sound scared of her, and she knows it.

She is bullying and humiliating teachers?

OP I feel for you. It scares me thinking about teenage years and I don't think we have American style bootcamps in the UK.
The main reason I'm writing is to tell you to ignore those awful judgemental people on here. Parenting isn't easy.

I do think that you should stop the make up and things and if the school want to fine you, take them to court. You can't hand cuff her and take her to school. Wishing you well.

I feel for you OP, sounds like a nightmare.

What about taking her to the shittiest council estate you can find followed by the nicest street with the biggest houses and telling her this is her choice? Followed by a trip to a pound shop for make up and then a visit to John Lewis' Chanel counter?

I know it's hugely playing to stereotypes (and no offence to anyone on a council estate!) but it might make it real for her.

She sounds like me at that age.

You remind me a little of my Mum in some ways too, sounds a bit like you have managed to keep her out of PRU by co-operating with the school and saying the right things. BTW how have you managed to avoid detection from the EWO with all that lateness?

You sound so down on her though, I do understand your frustration, but writing her off really won't help and all the talk of cleaning jobs etc just sounds like that's all you think she is worth. have you suggested those things to her? That won't help trust me.

Id suggest supporting her by finding out if she can go to a local college who will have courses for 14-16 yr olds. or look into apprenticeships in something that interests her. if she has narrowly avoided PRU, im surprised that college hasn't already been given as an option.

yanbu. Hang in there, I'm sure you're doing a great job with resistant materials.

I would have started calling her bluff a long time ago.

She won't go to school unless you buy her make up?

If her only personal possessions were her school uniform and a mattress with bed linen, unless she went to school and applied herself, I think she would make an effort then.

She's blackmailing you and unless you radically change your approach it's only going to get worse.
I also agree with worra, be honest with the school.

Sorry, meant to add, she will find it tough to even get a job in a 'private nursery'... Too many teens out there with the right attitude as competition.

I have 17 year olds as colleagues, they are very mature and focused.

OP, are you the same person whose daughter wanted to leave school at 16 and have a baby? Specifically a brown baby? That was one of those great Mumsnet threads...

Anyway, I expect not. There must be more than one Mumsnetter with an indolent teenager. No useful suggestions, except to say: she'll probably see sense at some point and start to apply herself. Probably just a question of whether it's sooner or later.

I think if the OP is saying she will get GCSEs in a couple of subjects that's ok though margaret.

I realise ideally she'd do much better but it's really, really rare for a student to leave school with NOTHING! :)

Please don't get her a job in a nursery. The majority of parents already view practitioners as school drop outs who weren't smart enough to go to uni.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but I'm fucked off with the threads advocating putting lazy and rude teenagers in a setting with children.

Speak to the school. Explain the blackmail. Strip her stuff down to bare essentials. It's not going to be easy but you can't let her get away with it and you can't write her off.

Can you send her to one of those military style programmes, where they pretty much knock them down about a hundred pegs and send that back to their families sobbing apologetically for being so obnoxious?

Probably not helpful but it's all I can think of. Much sympathy OP.

I don't think OP is writing her off at all. She's trying to find a path that will suit her instead of the limited things on offer.

This thread is good read about low-achieving teens, ISBN. Gave me succour.

Different story but my DD went down the school refusal route and (as she now describes it) left school at 14. She had a year in home education and found that ultimately too isolated so now instead of year 11 she's in college doing a BTEC and a couple of GCSEs, has a plan for education and career ideas, and just today landed a well paid Saturday job. So there is hope.....

College is great for her - it comes to 4 days a week with a lot of coursework to be completed at home. They are treated as adults but with more support/supervision for the young ones - she was 15 when she started and I was concerned about the age range but have been watching her mature fast and all has gone well. She has healthy respect for the students who are there struggling on minimum wage, zero hour contracts, young single parents etc etc

I think school is a really tough environment and kids have to feel quite strong and good about themselves a lot of the time to cope with it. It wasn't right for Dd1, but is fine for Dd2

Just read updated posts.

You have another child with ASD, I do too. Im more than likely somewhere on the spectrum too but despite referals to EPs, child guidance etc nothing was ever picked up and I struggled on underachieving.

I thought, I wonder. .. about your daughter, but didn't want to say as its so easy to 'see' it when you see it all the time.

When was she last seen by someone? was it just CAMHS or any other professionals?

As she is clever, then it will be easier for her to pick up an academic path again later on if she wants to.

I wonder if the school bending over backwards in areas might be counterproductive now. There's no glimmer of improvement there, so perhaps a PRU might be a better place for her now.

Hackmum - you have a great memory. Yes it's the same (should add that dd herself is biracial). Christ, that's a whole other can of worms. No boys in the picture ATM thank fuck, but the demographic many of her friends belong to means that it's only a matter of time before one of them has a baby and dd will be 'well jel'.

Amber, she has been seen by a consultant psychiatrist. I don't think she has ASD. She is very good at friendships - best friend has been a chum since nursery, gets on with everyone according to school.

She is very socially adept and has been since she was tiny.

What did/are you doing preparing her for adulthood? I've only read a few of your posts but you seem happy to palm your kid off to teachers to fix your problem. Sit down with her and do homework, guide your child and try a bit of discipline he.
She would benefit from an outside mentor as you're not doing that

I was a nightmare at her age too! I did not have encouraging patents like you either! I now 46 and doing a nursing degree (mum 'why are you bothering at your age?'), and would have done it sooner if given any encouragement!

She will probably return to education in her own good time! Hopefully sooner than I did!

Parents not patents.