to think older teens should be made to watch what an abortion is in PHSE. (sorry possibly triggering)

[StraightLineOfResignation]

I know this may be controversial but I have thought this for some time.
Abortion is legal in this country but still straight forward , informative talks about it are clouded by morality and judgement and at the end of the day, sometimes people need to have one in tragic circumstances i.e people who are made critically ill by pregnancy.
And are often as well as already scared and sad, i don't think most people make this decision lightly, are woefully underprepared which i'm sure must only add to emotional trauma.
and of course there are too many potential uninterested fathers who just utter 'get rid of it' at the hearing of potentially being a father, so disgustingly flippantly like throwing a crisp packet in the bin, I do think if they especially had seen a medical video of the procedure, well i think the number of people who just thrown that term around would be significantly less, if they had actually seen that image with their own eyes , and would be less detached from the idea and process.
I'm talking older teens , like 16+ here , not 11 year olds.
my mum and i have always though this, i would find it traumatising and pretty shocking, but compared to people who feel shame, go backstreet putting themselves at risk and people who go through with pregnancies they did not want/need. Surely a bit of discomfort is better then that being a legacy of another generation.

I have clarified and so have some other posters, I think some selective reading has gone one consciously or not.

and big thanks to the OP for showing us how lovely and thoughtful and compassionate and funny most MNers still are

I don't think anyone on this thread deserves much love tbh after the onslaught of nastiness , people could have just asked it costs nothing.

Do people consider what being accused of being anti abortion . etc may have brought up for me with my history of unwanted pregnancy and abuse? no.

I struggle to have compassion for anyone who throws stuff like that around not caring the effect it has on someone else.

OP, I think you might like to take a break now, maybe?

Don't worry Trip. You're fine.
Thanks Mitchy. Hugs always gratefully accepted.
OP you need to stop now. Go to bed.

I only read the first page. I was late teen with an unwanted pregnancy, there was a much younger girl, maybe mid teens, with a pregnancy she really wasn't sure about. I was sure about what I wanted to do. She definitely didn't know and she had a traumatic termination. I talked to her on the ward, and it turned out she had no idea that free contraception was available, that there are all sorts of health care workers, teachers, friendly adults, who can help you make good decisions. Her boyfriend was lovely, I hope they are still together.

Actually, those of you getting snarky, some forms of contraception do remove an unwanted pregnancy, by preventing implantation, technically causing a very early miscarriage.

No, that's actually been disproven. It used to be thought that the morning after pill did that, but more recent research has shown that it prevents sperm and egg fusing. It doesn't prevent implantation (actually, it does the opposite. It's slightly MORE likely to implant, though nobody knows why. Ironically if the anti-abortion crew were really that frantically anxious to save blastocysts and ensure implantation they should be funding research into why and how emergency contraception increases those chances.)

It's now thought that this is why the morning after pill is less and less effective as the 3 days pass. Implantation usually takes a few days and fertilisation can take that as well, so still worth taking up to day 3, but if fertilisation has already occurred it can't do anything.

so disgustingly flippantly like throwing a crisp packet in the bin

I'll tell you what's 'disgustingly flippant' in my book - having a baby on some silly teenaged whim, ignoring the fact that you are not in a position to feed, clothe and house it without putting undue burden on everyone else around you and on society in general. Without serious thought to whether or not you are emotionally mature enough to make the sacrifices that having a baby demands, to put your own life, your own higher/further education, your own career on hold before it's even started, and being completely in denial about the fact that the spotty youth who impregnated you is either a totally unfit father or a totally reluctant one.

I think most young single women who seek abortions are far less flippant, and far more mindful of the consequences of their decision than many of the young women who choose motherhood.

Well said ^^^ mad

I think this post is utterly thoughtless to the potential hurt it can stir. Whether the op is or isn't antiabortion is irrelevant.The posts tone is unpleasant and highly inflammatory.
I would always consider the potential pain- or perhaps that's the purpose for the post.

Well put, mad. Although I'd remove the 'young'.

Yes OP, you are being unreasonable. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be forced to watch a video of one.

To be fair, OP, you say you have been 'misunderstood', but your initial post was somewhat inarticulate, so readers had to apply a degree of guesswork to infer your meaning.

And to hit us with this statement, over four hundred messages into the thread:
Do people consider what being accused of being anti abortion . etc may have brought up for me with my history of unwanted pregnancy and abuse? no.

• well, that's just drip-feeding, isn't it?

MadIs, your post assumes some pretty unacceptable stereotypes. Younger men are not necessarily bad or reluctant fathers. And using 'spotty' as shorthand for young/foolish is ageist and also inaccurate. I've had adult acne for all of my adult life and am now in my 30s, does that make me an unfit parent?
And the idea that no one should have a baby if it puts a burden on the state doesn't wash with me. We all get maternity pay in some form and we all benefit from the support of those around us not to mention free stuff, libraries, schools, healthcare etc. It takes a village and all that. You have no idea what contribution any mum or baby might make in years to come so to dismiss them both as some Daily Mail stereotype is ridiculous.

MadIs, your post assumes some pretty unacceptable stereotypes. Younger men are not necessarily bad or reluctant fathers. And using 'spotty' as shorthand for young/foolish is ageist and also inaccurate. I've had adult acne for all of my adult life and am now in my 30s, does that make me an unfit parent?
And the idea that no one should have a baby if it puts a burden on the state doesn't wash with me. We all get maternity pay in some form and we all benefit from the support of those around us not to mention free stuff, libraries, schools, healthcare etc. It takes a village and all that. You have no idea what contribution any mum or baby might make in years to come so to dismiss them both as some Daily Mail stereotype is ridiculous.

'I struggle to have compassion for anyone who throws stuff like that around not caring the effect it has on someone else.'

And yet you started a thread which has upset other posters and which covers probably THE most sensitive issue. I would have thought that you, with your commitment to caring about people and your own difficult 'history' would have thought better of it.

"to think older teens should be made to watch what an abortion is in PHSE."

I don't think anyone has misunderstood what the meaning behind your post was.

I have RTFT, and I still don't think that anyone has misunderstood what the meaning behind your post was.

I don't think so either Binky. I think the OP's meaning was clear. Her motivation is much less clear.

I think it was a poorly thought-out and clumsily written op but the op has said a number of times she didn't mean to come across as anti-abortion.

What MadIs actually said was 'undue burden'. Which I think is a fair point.

The OP wouldn't have mentioned "triggering" in her title if this tread was just meant to be about giving teenagers a wider knowledge of contraception...

We were shown a video of a surgical abortion being carried out as part of PSE. It was the most horrific thing I have ever seen. Lots of people cried. Some were sick.

In my class quite a few went on to have abortions. Probably all the video did was make a stressful decision and experience even more so.

YABU

How was anyone supposed to know about unwanted pregnancy and abuse if you didn't mention it until this page?

The point is, that people disagree that your plan would have any effect whatsoever. And most people think the availability of abortions in this country is a good thing. Why should there be any more unwanted babies condemned to a miserable childhood? There are people entirely unsuited to parenthood conceiving all over the place. This does not mean they will always be unsuited to parenthood, but neither does it mean they magically and automatically become good parents the second they give birth. Similarly, there are women and men who have their families already, and have no desire for more.

People disagree with you OP. This does not make them nasty.

Going from one stereotype - of all abortions being "the easy choice" or whatever the OP was trying to suggest - to another, of people who choose to keep the baby being 'disgustingly flippant', is just as unhelpful. Just as people who've had abortions would read this thread and feel hurt by what the OP is saying, young parents and young parents-to-be are reading this thread too and those stereotypes aren't a nice thing to read when your confidence in your abilities is already at rock bottom.

madis my daughter is 11 I am 29. I was a teenage mum.

Your last post is possibly the most personally offensive thing I have ever read. You deserve more expletives then MNHQ would let me get away with for that. I worked 2 jobs to support my child while her father continued his studies. He is now a fairly high ranking officer in the RAF and I am successful in my career.

Now the important part. My daughter is happy, well balanced and loved. She is top of her class. I've done a marvellous job frankly.

When she asks about my teen pregnancy I tell her that while I might have got pregnant 'by accident' I have birth on purpose. She was born because I chose to be a mother. It was not some teenage whim. How dare you, how fucking dare you.