AIBU to feel annoyed when it appears that a vaginal delivery is an "achievement"

[walkie]

Sorry for the rant, family member has just had second child, and other family members are repeating "amazing" "she did really well" "she only needed gas and air" "it only took X hours". I can't help wanting to say, well, I didn't exactly choose c-section & various other complications - I hate that this feels like somehow her natural delivery is more "worthy" than any other routes? There are no A*'s in childbirth (or have I missed something?)! (This is really just about me & how I feel - I know the most important thing is that mum & baby are safe & well.)

baking that's a terrible thing to hear; no wonder people feel such pressure to have 'perfect' birth experiences when other people spout crap like that .
With my 1st I had no choice but to have an epidural because as soon as I got into labour (like you I was induced and I waited ages for labour to actually start) the pain was too much so I was given pethidine which made me and ds v sleepy, then they measured my blood pressure which had shot up and continued to rise. 2 doses of lobetalol (? No idea) did nothing so they gave me the epidural to bring it down.
I spent most of that day away with the fairies, all the while the midwives and drs were in and out checking on me and ds because he was very sleepy.
I eventually got to the pushing stage and pushed for 1.5+ hrs. Ds had made no progress despite my best efforts and his heart rate showed wasn't recovering after each contraction so they did the cs.
I will always regret having had the pethidine because I remember very little about his actual birth. I breast fed but they took him off me because I fell asleep.
Because of the blood pressure drugs I'd had ds' blood sugar was low so the Dr told me off for trying to breast feed him and the midwife took him away to give him formula. After that I felt such a failure because not only could I go into labour on my own, I couldn't push him out, had loads of drugs that I didn't plan on having, had an emcs and then, to top it all off, my breast milk wasn't good enough for him.
I totally get what you're saying - you imagine that your birth experience will be like what they portray in films/tv or what they tell you about in antenatal classes and then when it doesn't happen like that you're faced with not only your own disappointment in yourself and your body you also hear/read the sanctimonious crap that these earth mother types spout about doing it all naturally.
Don't listen to your cousin. The only thing that's happened is that she got lucky and didn't need any intervention. And try not to think about what didn't happen and what didn't work. Instead, focus on what you do have: a healthy, thriving baby. That's so much more important than anyone else's birth story.

Crikey that was a lot longer than I wanted it to be. Sorry

I think every woman who goes through pregnancy and childbirth, whatever way, is really fucking amazing.

It's not about you OP.

I get really irritated by this attitude that a women isn't allowed to be proud of herself for carrying a baby and giving birth. Of course there is always an element of luck involved in the outcome, but whether it's a case of getting through without pain relief, fighting for an ELCS, coping with the shock of an emergency situation during labour and a million other permutations every woman should be proud she got through it.

You can't change people's attitudes.

Beg to differ on that one... you absolutely can.

fighting for an ELCS...

hmm.. well thats another one about cultural attitudes. Why does a women need to fight for an ELCS?

Having achieved one with no pain relief I can assure you that it is down to luck. I only had no pain relief due to lack of time.

It is much easiee to deal with the pain when you have a fast uncomplicated labour and this is only down to luck.

I lay there after my EMCS and decided that I wouldn't tell anyone that I'd had a section. I felt so ashamed. Then I had what amounted to a breakdown.

There IS a culture of shame surrounding c-sections and assisted births, dione, whether you like it or not.

'Too posh to push'.
'C-section and a tummy tuck'.
'Unnecaesarean'.
'20% c-section rate is too high'.
'Done for the sake of their sex life'.
'C-section babies are delivered, not born'.
'Didn't you want to do it properly?'.
'It won't happen to you if you trust your body.'
'A caesarean? I'm so sorry'.
'Vaginal birth is so much better for the baby who gives a fuck if her mother is dead by the end of it'.
'Maybe you didn't really want to have a "natural" birth in your heart'.
'C-sections are so selfish'.
'C-sections are such a drain on the NHS'.
'You should have got up and moved around'.
'If I can do it "naturally" anyone can!"

Shall I go on? Every single one of these comments has been directed at me or another mother who had a section. Every. Single. One.

It took me a long time and a lot of therapy to get where I am today, which is the belief that my body is incredible no matter how I gave birth. I'm lucky. You can see from this thread how many other women struggle with it. Do you seriously think that they just came by these thoughts out of thin air?

I agree with motherinferior. Getting pregnant, giving birth and feeding a baby isn't an achievement. It is biology. Seriously, in 2014, are we still stuck in a time when women are judged on how/if they have reproduced and made to feel inferior if a) they haven't done either, b) haven't had a textbook perfect birth and c) feel that actually their professional/academic/other achievements are really more important than being an incubator on legs.

And most of the childless women I know dont care about how a baby is delivered - they just don't want to hear the details!!

In fact, that can also be said for those of us who have had children too!!

I get a bit peeved that if a women gives birth without complications, she isn't allowed to be proud of herself without it seeming like its a slur on women who have a more difficult time.
Same with breastfeeding, women who can't, won't or don't complain about how it makes them because they used formula instead.
So what, who cares, if mother and baby are well what more is there to say.

mumofboyo, that almost made me cry.

regardless of the birth, if it a VB with no pain relief to a section under GA, the baby will be born. Some babies will latch on and breastfeed perfectly, some will not. some are FF'd. Some babies are not born heathy and may need a lot of care and treatments. Some baby are tragically born sleeping.

I think its mainly luck in what birth you have, but every mother should feel proud that they bought a baby into the world

Commander, amen to that. I've had every single one of those. I can't comprehend why everyone doesn't want a CS, in the same way that those who make comments like that to me can't comprehend why on earth I didn't want their birth plan.

The difference is, you don't get fucking reprobates commiserating people on their natural births. But it's fine for these "earth mothers" to look down their nose at me. "Didn't you want to do it properly?" That's fine to say a twattish thing like that. Can you imagine the uproar if I replied "I did thanks, I just didn't fancy 36 hours of being on my hands and knees grunting like a pig being stabbed with a red hot poker" Or something equally offensive

I've learned to ignore. But I still get riled up on the behalf of others, because I remember how cutting these remarks were until I got used to them, before I could laugh at them.

And actually i don't believe it is all down to luck, partially maybe, but I think it's about choices you make early in labour that also effect the rest of the labour, choosing epidural for instance, or which positions you adopt, IMO these also have an effect.
As for elcs ..... I do not agree that this is necessary.
This is the only birthing method, that I have heard critiqued in real life.

Yes pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding are biological, so is running. most people can run, some people get lucky and get long legs, the motivation to train and the encouragement and support from their families to continue, would you say that people who have run a marathon havn't acheived something, should they not feel proud? Or should they just feel like oh well, you know, I was only running and running is just biological.

Women take large chunks out of their carees to have children, are they not acheiving anything in that time? By saying that childbirth is not an acheivement is suggesting that women are just an incubator. It makes women sound passive in the entire situation, like birth is the same as your finger nails growing , it just happens with no in put, effort, or choice.

baking I'm physically incapable of giving birth (diagnosed by consultant). In fact I've been advised that for my own health I shouldn't become pregnant again. Just as well there wouldn't have been any more any way.

Op unless the people you mentioned in your OP have previously made negative comments about your's or similar births then they probably didn't mean it the way you've taken it. If they have made nasty comments then they deserve a good slap. I get where you're coming from though, having been on the receiving end of really nasty comments about my births (see above) I have become ultra sensitive and have a tendency to assume the worst in people's comments when no malice has been intended.

For example my ex stood up in court and as part of his argument as to why I shouldn't be allowed access never mind residency said "she didn't even love her enough to give birth properly, she didn't even want to be awake". His dad told dd that I wasn't there for her birth (I was unconcious after bleeding out btw). Now if someone asks about my births my first thought is will they think I don't love my dds? However when I'm having a good day and can be detached I can realise that most normal people don't think that way and aren't as fucked up as my ex. There's a 50/50 chance he doesn't think it either but knows how to cause hurt.

I think what I'm trying to say is some people like to say women didn't give birth properly. BUT these people are fucked up and nasty. Their comments say a lot more about them than the person they are commenting on.

As for elcs ..... I do not agree that this is necessary.

Do you wish to comment on the mortality rates for breech births and why ELCS are generally favoured?
Would you like to comment on why ELCS are performed due to where the placenta?
Do you know who is most likely to request an ELCS? And why?

Sorry you are just ignorant.

And incredibly rude and insensitive.

Grumpy - what a nasty Arsehole your ex sounds. That has made me very angry on your behalf and is quite stupid, you carried her, and gave her life, the "route out" is no measure of love.
I do not think there is a "proper" way to give birth, only it's natural to start with the least complicated method first,

That's your opinion.
The circumstances you have highlighted are NOT elective .
They are necessary.
I was referring to women who choose cs when they do not need it.

but I think it's about choices you make early in labour that also effect the rest of the labour
What if it's not the labouring mother's choice to lay on her back strapped to the monitor? Both times I had no option but to lay there, on my back, attached to the monitor because of my blood pressure (dc1) and monitoring the scar from my previous cs (dc2).
It's comments like this that make people feel they've failed because they've done something wrong - when in actual fact they have done all they could.

madambossyboots reasons for ELCS being necessary:

Pre-eclampsia.
Tocophobia (tokophobia?).
Placenta praevia.
Transverse presentation unresponsive to external cephalic version/breech presentation.
Unusually small pelvis (hello MIL!).
Cerclage/other problems with the cervix.

That's just off the top of my head.

It depends how the comments were made. If they were made to congratulate the new mum, that's fine. If they were making comparisons with your own birth experience in a negative way, not fine at all.

grumpy- your ex sounds crazy. I hope the court laughed at him.

Sorry, crossposted:

"I was referring to women who choose cs when they do not need it."

ELCS does not mean unnecessary. ELCS means Elective Caesarean Section. And who are you to decide what's necessary and what's not? Shall I ask you when I'm weighing up the options for DC2, lest I'm wrong?

mumofboyo, I suggest that you have a look at the NICE guidance on CS, and what they call an ELCS and what reasons they give for one.

You are ignorant. Whether you want to admit it or not. Both ignorant and rude.

Thank you . I wasn't really looking for a list but thank anyway.
Just to clarify I wasn't referring to women who need a cs for any of the reasons you kindly point out.
I was referring to those who choose without any medical reason.