To credit MN for the way I handled this rude woman at the shops?

[Primafacie]

... When I felt a bit hurt, humiliated and angry at her comments?

I had an encounter this morning which up till now I thought only ever happened on Mumsnet :)

I was food shopping (M&S, not that i think it's relevant but so I am not accused of dripfeeding) with my DCs (aged 2 and almost 5). I always park their scooters by the store entrance (on the inside), which itself leads to the inside of a shopping mall, and is guarded by a staff member. We (and the store) are in a very safe, family friendly area.

As I was heading for the tills, DD nearly 5 asked if she could wait for me by the scooters. I said yes, as she is very sensible, I was only going to be a few minutes, and in my own risk assessment, this is not a risky situation.

Two minutes later, I emerge from the queue with my shopping and DS in tow. A woman (I am guessing around 75, again not really relevant but don't want to DF) is talking to the security guard by the door, pointing to DD who is waiting by the scooters. She sees me and says 'is this your child?' Conversation then goes like this:

Me: 'Yes she is'.
Her: 'I really don't think it is advisable to leave your child here, anyone could have kidnapped her'.
Me: Rrright. Well, I disagree,and I think she is perfectly safe here.
Her: but you are wrong. Anyone could have taken her. This is really dangerous.
Me: Well, that's your view. I happen to think we live in a good society and I don't see abductors and paedos everywhere.
Her: but you are wrong, you see. She could have come to harm.
Me: so you have said, several times. Look, I disagree with you, and I am not interested in your views. I didn't ask for your opinion. When I was her age my mum used to send me to the shops on my own. Now please leave me and my kids alone.
Her: Happy new year.
Me: and happy new year to you. Now please can you stop following me?

All this without raising my voice, or stopping smiling :o

All the while she was trying to get the poor security guy roped in to tell me off - to his credit, he never opened his mouth.

Still feeling a bit offended, but meh - hardly the end of the world.

So, thanks MN. Can I get my shiny badge now?

75 Really isn't that old.

I see elderly people every day in my job and trust me, under 80 is just about old.

There was 523 cases of child abduction in 2011/12 in this country not including Scotland, half of these by strangers and the figure is rising every year.
I think YWBU.

The latest crime figures, published by the Office for National Statistics, show 532 cases of child abduction reported to police in 2011/12. The figures do not include Scotland, which has a separate justice system.
That figure is down 3% on the previous year and much lower than the high of 1,035 cases in 2004/05.

But that includes 15 year olds that go off for the night with a 16 year old boyfriend.

The statistics really mean nothing like that.

You actually have to take some time to take them apart to see what they really show.

And to all those mocking the concern about peadophiles in February 2013 there where over 18,000 peadophiles/sexual abusers on the database (not including the ones who haven't been caught!)
In April 2012 there were 400 children abused every week which is 1 child abused every 20 minutes in Briton.
So yes there are bad people who abuse children around every corner so you have no right to mock those people who are concerned for the safety, and rightly so, of their children. I hate reading people say 'I only left them there for a minute' because that's all it takes!
It's crap that in this day and age that you can't leave your door unlocked or leave your baby to sleep in a pram outside a shop (my mum used to do that to my brother, 45 years ago mind) but that is how it is I'm afraid.

My friend is on the sex offenders list for smoking a cigarette out of a window with no top on.

Another is on there because his girlfriends mum took him to court when he was 16 and her daughter was 15.5. They later married, he is still not allowed to work with children.

Thbrotherhood, I don't think anyone is mocking, but seriously, I don't think there are peadophiles on every corner. Yes, 18,000 sounds a lot, but not when you take it against the population of people in UK as a whole, and sadly as we are told again and again, a child is more likely to be abused by a person they know, or is known to their parents, than they are a stranger.

I think that as parents we have a million and one things that we can worry about, but worry about peadophiles should be further down the list. I worry far more about my daughter being in a car accident for example, than I do about 'stranger danger' because we travel an awful lot, she is in a car every single day and on a motorway every single weekend. She is at more risk from that than anything else, so I have ensured that we have bought a car with the HIGHEST safety levels, the most airbags, the best crumple zones etc in our price range. The car is maintained to the highest standards and DD is as safe when she is in it as DH and I can hope. That's my 'managed risk' and yours maybe different.

I don't think a blanket 'we should be all scared of strangers' is actually that helpful. Most of us will never, ever have a reason to be.

Oh FFS. If we're going to rant on about paedophiles, could you please all spell it properly?

Sorry BIWI I think I have a mental block on that word.

*Can anyone who thinks the OP was BVU to leave her child for 2 mins answer my musings above.

Certainly in Germany (and I am pretty sure other European countries) it is perfectly normal for Primary School children to walk to school on their own. Both ways, in all weathers, crossing roads etc.

Now surely that is far more dangerous than 2 minutes in a shop, but completely acceptable to a whole nation. Why on earth is that? Why is it not the norm in the UK? Why do we see more risk here?*

In these countries, children start school between 6 and 8, and so the walking to school is seen as a step towards some independence, they also tend to walk in groups to a local school, or at least my husband did. Most parents in these countries don't leave a four year old unattended in public places, these children would still be in kindergarten or nursery.

There is such a deal of difference developmentally between a four year old (nearly five) and an eight year old, one of the main things being as another poster said, gullibility when approached by a stranger. My four year old would have gone off with anyone with a dog if they were nice even thought I told her not to, my eight year old knows that whatever nice people say to you, and even if they have a dog you must not go off with them. That is why my eight and ten year old are allowed to walk to school unaccompanied, but I wouldn't leave a four year old even for a couple of minutes in a shop.

I do think that just one horrific case, widely reported can affect a nations beliefs about what is safe. As I said earlier the James Bulger case was clearly very unusual, that is why it was so widely reported, but I certainly think of it even years later and it has affected what I think is safe for children, and I think a lot of people are the same. Then there was the Maddie McCann case, would anyone now leave a child unattended in a hotel room?
And once you start thinking this way it follows that other things are unsafe, and older kids are also at risk.
In the 1930s My Gran used to go off with her older sisters from the age of 4 and run about the cliffs and swim in the sea. Even 40 yrs ago dh could play out by the local lake all day only coming home when it was tea time. They were very healthy and fit and look back on those times as good fun. But I don't think you can get that back.

"I hardly think a 75 year old woman is a worthy adversary to be proud if defeating"

Then you haven't met MY mother!! I defy anyone to try it on with her

reving I don't think looking back on fond memories of being so young playing alone by the sea or lakes is a good thing.

It's actually a very dangerous thing. They were extremely lucky. I'm a swimming teacher so know how quick fun turns in to danger. Also I'm very strong swimmer , but got caught with the tide one holiday and didn't think I would make it back!

I think people sit in one of two groups. Those who are cautious those who are not.

I would assume anyone who let their five year out of their sight was either stupid or irresponsible.

Yes, years ago kids used to roam the streets blah blah and the whole kidnap thing is blown up out of proportion.

But why on earth take the risk? The risk of her actually being taken is tiny, but the consequences of her being taken are huge. So surely you wouldn't consider this a risk worth taking?

I say this of a parent of a very mature 5yo who would happily wait wherever I left her without moving. But I still wouldn't consider letting her out of my sight - its just not worth the risk.

LEM Ha Ha...nor mine!

Gecko....2 friends on the sex offenders list.....what was that remark of Oscar Wilde's?

In any event, most posters have commented less on the danger of abduction but more on the more likely danger of wandering off, getting lost and possibly being run over. The child was 4.

I see groups of fools have been taking their children out to watch the recent storms: still, I suppose they have done a risk assessment so that's ok then.

Just because a parent makes a risk assessment and judges a situation ok, doesn't make it so. From what the OP has detailed, I wouldn't let her make a risk assessment about the needs of a pot plant.

It's not that I think a 75 yr old is frail and weak.

On the contrary!! As I'm sure we all can testify!

I just think the ops response was unnessecary.

Op should be proud to have such a well behaved 5 yr old & wether op should have left dd or not is being discussed, but I really don't feel ops behaviour was bad but neither do I think she deserves an award

miss I sincerely hope the young chap that's probably been washed out to sea returns home safely

The thing is, it is so easy to become hysterical to any risk. Technically, by walking my son to school every day I am putting my children and my lives at risk, a narrow pavement, rush hour on a busyish road probably means the likelihood of a car mountin the kerb pretty high. Much higher than my 5 year old being snatched from the foyer of a shop when he's stood next to the security guard.

We (and the store) are in a very safe, family friendly area
oh really well so was the Bryn y Gog estate

whereis I think the general consensus is that the danger wasn't from kiddie snatchers but from wandering off ect.. As they were so young.

But well done you get to accuse people if being hysterical

in February 2013 there where over 18,000 peadophiles/sexual abusers on the database (not including the ones who haven't been caught!)
In April 2012 there were 400 children abused every week which is 1 child abused every 20 minutes in Briton.
So yes there are bad people who abuse children around every corner

And the vast majority of these 'paedophiles' were known to their victims (family members/friends of the family/contact through a group/facility), as statistics show again and again and again. They are not dodgy -looking blokes in trenchcoats asking children if they want to see some puppies.

Stop scaremongering with figures and take some time to actually think about what you're saying ffs. Maybe do a bit more reading into how these figures breakdown.

heartbroken

I don't think people need to scaremonger- the figures speak for themselves.

I actually didnt think it was that bad

It's strange when posters come on and say pedophiles don't exist when clearly they do - family or strangers.

I think the older woman's heart was in the right place but she got your back up because you know there was an inkling of truth in what she said. But it's made you feel better to come on here and get your back slapped for not being an 'uptight helicopter' parent.

I think you were wrong. 4 is far too young to stand inside the entrance of a store whilst you wait at the Tills. Could you see your child or was your back turned? For all your bravado, your child could have wandered off or been easily distracted at that age and you would probably have been the first person to blame the security guy who maybe didn't notice.
Doesn't matter whether you were in Lidl or M&S, a posh area or a shit one.

The fact you did this whilst smiling in a passive aggressive way does not warrant a badge.