To credit MN for the way I handled this rude woman at the shops?

[Primafacie]

... When I felt a bit hurt, humiliated and angry at her comments?

I had an encounter this morning which up till now I thought only ever happened on Mumsnet :)

I was food shopping (M&S, not that i think it's relevant but so I am not accused of dripfeeding) with my DCs (aged 2 and almost 5). I always park their scooters by the store entrance (on the inside), which itself leads to the inside of a shopping mall, and is guarded by a staff member. We (and the store) are in a very safe, family friendly area.

As I was heading for the tills, DD nearly 5 asked if she could wait for me by the scooters. I said yes, as she is very sensible, I was only going to be a few minutes, and in my own risk assessment, this is not a risky situation.

Two minutes later, I emerge from the queue with my shopping and DS in tow. A woman (I am guessing around 75, again not really relevant but don't want to DF) is talking to the security guard by the door, pointing to DD who is waiting by the scooters. She sees me and says 'is this your child?' Conversation then goes like this:

Me: 'Yes she is'.
Her: 'I really don't think it is advisable to leave your child here, anyone could have kidnapped her'.
Me: Rrright. Well, I disagree,and I think she is perfectly safe here.
Her: but you are wrong. Anyone could have taken her. This is really dangerous.
Me: Well, that's your view. I happen to think we live in a good society and I don't see abductors and paedos everywhere.
Her: but you are wrong, you see. She could have come to harm.
Me: so you have said, several times. Look, I disagree with you, and I am not interested in your views. I didn't ask for your opinion. When I was her age my mum used to send me to the shops on my own. Now please leave me and my kids alone.
Her: Happy new year.
Me: and happy new year to you. Now please can you stop following me?

All this without raising my voice, or stopping smiling :o

All the while she was trying to get the poor security guy roped in to tell me off - to his credit, he never opened his mouth.

Still feeling a bit offended, but meh - hardly the end of the world.

So, thanks MN. Can I get my shiny badge now?

My friend was a fireman, the biggest risk to your children are house fires.

My friend left a remote on the sofa, it got hot because a button was pressed down and set fire to his house.

He woke up and had to throw a single mattress out the window and then launch his pregnant Missis on to it.

If you are the type of person to 'risk assess' then you are much more likely (when armed with the facts) to remove electrical items from your house, turn all appliances off at the wall, never have hair straighteners or blow driers

Those things kill children every day, not in a dramatic media way but still.

I cannot understand this obesssion with stranger danger when there are so many more issues in life to worry about!

Uptheanty,
Where did OP mention James Bulger? I cannot see it.
Where was OP rude to the lady? I cannot see that either.

Uptheanty, I absolutely did not bring up the JB tragedy.

Can anyone who thinks the OP was BVU to leave her child for 2 mins answer my musings above.

Certainly in Germany (and I am pretty sure other European countries) it is perfectly normal for Primary School children to walk to school on their own. Both ways, in all weathers, crossing roads etc.

Now surely that is far more dangerous than 2 minutes in a shop, but completely acceptable to a whole nation. Why on earth is that? Why is it not the norm in the UK? Why do we see more risk here?

Because we're really bad at teaching stats in schools?! It's one thing being irrational about risk, we all are, but quite another to labour under the delusions some people on this thread are under about how best to prevent your child coming to serious harm.

I believe it was gecko that bought up James Bulger, call me sentimental, but please use his name rather than initials.
"With all the local media a child taken from shopping centre would be found in no time" words to that effect.
I disagreed with gecko then and I do now.

Did the op ask her daughter to wait by the scooter to prevent it being stolen? Just a thought ....

Sorry- my mistake, thought it was you op.
There is lots of comments on this thread

lalouch I don't believe the op was two mins at least five ?

But if there was no risk time really isn't a factor.

Would you leave your four year old in the house for five,ten ,fifteen mins alone?

What about a 20 minute walk to school then cold?

it is perfectly normal for Primary School children to walk to school on their own. Both ways, in all weathers, crossing roads etc.

Actually you see 4 and 5 year olds walking to school on their own on my estate. Quite some distance for some of them as its quite a large estate. I find it a little odd tbh, although I'm not from round these parts, so the culture is very different here (to me). It was very sad when a 4 year old got hit by a car on her way home from school recently though. Just no need for that to have happened.

Madam, it wasn't Gecko who first mentioned it, I believe it was Rinoachicken.

I used initials as I know the name is upsetting for some people. Damned if you do...

I didn't ask DD to guard the scooters - it would take a pretty sad fucker to steal old and battered micro scooters. I leave them everywhere, never had a problem. Lots of other parents do, as I said this is a safe area.

See this is what I don't like.

Now it's hinting that OP values scooters over children.

By any chance is this Tunbridge Wells?

oh sorry, wrong thread

My younger dc moved school this year and a lot of the kids there walk to/from school by themselves.

There is a zebra crossing at the bottom of my road and traffic comes at it from three different roads. The amount of kids (primary and secondary) I've seen just walk straight out onto it, regardless of oncoming traffic, is astounding.

They just walk along, chatting to their friends or messing with their phones, and don't seem to notice the cars having slammed on their brakes at the last minute.

Its quite scary. My older son (almost 9) has walked home from this new school himself a couple of times and I've stood watching for him from the doorstep. I'm proud at how well he handles the zebra (he really has picked up his road safety) and doesn't budge until it's either clear every way or oncoming traffic has stopped both sides. But I've seen his friends just carry on ahead of him onto the crossing without even looking.

There is no way in the world I would let my younger DS (5) even think about this until he's much older. And I don't see that as mollycoddling, I see it as appropriate child protection - he just doesn't have the road sense to deal with it by himself.

LtEve DS2 and I were only saying, a couple of days before the holidays, how few children walk to school here unaccompanied now, despite us being 'behind the wire'.

Ours walked to catch the school bus from about 6&8 at the last camp, and they were 9&11 when we moved here, so walked alone.

They played in the street, at our own house, from 3&5. It was a small cul de sac, lots of kids, and we could see them from the window.

DS1 would have been fine to have been left by the scooters, DS2 would have been flying up and down the aisles!

Oh no hold on, I'm not for a second suggesting the value of scooters over her children, how ridiculous. I meant that she didn't want them left unattended.

My mistake gecko, I apologize.

I was a very sensible child. We went on a day trip to Cambridge. Whilst Mummy and Daddy were talking about the lovely big buildings, I grabbed my Daddy's hand and we walked away. I only found out he wasn't my Daddy when Daddy called my name behind me. We had walked possibly 50 metres down the street. I was about 5 and had got mistaken as they were both wearing similar trousers. I can't remember there being a big scene and I know my Mum and Dad didn't report anything. Can you imagine what would have happened now?!

A few years later I had a horrid incident where I was chased my an unknown man who entered our house (with blood on his knife etc - proper scary). My Mum frantically was trying to get the police to believe what was going on on the phone as they didn't believe her - we lived in a nice area but it was a random thing.

As a student I lived in some well dodgy areas but never felt intimidated and never suffered any crime.

I think OP that you should not justify your reasoning by saying it was a nice area so nothing could happen.

Sorry Prima on the link I posted checkout pages 13 and 23. The 20 figure for child deaths in cars came from here. The ONS report makes some broad comparisons between homicide and deaths on the road generally.

I don't want to over-labour the risk assessment point. I picked you up on the deaths in cars because I find most people, especially on Mumsnet over-estimate it. Children are actually most vulnerable as pedestrians and on bicycles so the figure for those deaths is higher (though not massively). And obviously if you'd said injured not killed you'd have been nearer the mark, though still comparing a figure of approx 2,400 with a figure of 530.

So we could be comparing apples and oranges. Or having a 'lies, damned lies and statistics' argument.

And in any event the relative risks of driving in cars and leaving children unattended for short periods of time is irrelevant since both are equally necessary and unnecessary. Children need to get to places and they need unsupervised time and stuff needs to be bought in supermarkets. If our only goal is to stop them dying at the ends of a third party we'd never leave the house and that would also kill them.

So no one can really make decisions at the door of the supermarket on the basis of the latest Home Office data on Police Recorded Crime. We make decisions based on whether a situation feels safe to us. This situation felt safe to you. As I said in my first post I'm not questioning that.

More useful to you would be data on how old children before they stop being phenomenally gullible when strangers approach. I know I've seen this discussed and it is surprisingly late (8 or 9 on average but don't quote me yet) but am struggling to find links now. If I do will PM you.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the abduction stat is down. Abduction is less likely than it was 20 years ago. But more than half of abductions attempted by strangers are thwarted by intervention from the public. So this is a dynamic phenomenon. Children are safer because the public are aware of abduction and actively intervene if they see a situation which looks odd, and perhaps potential perpetrators are less likely to even try now (certainly the dramatic drop in the last few years has coincided with the introduction of the Sex Offenders Register).

Penelope that bears out my previous post and my experience of letting my 11.5 year old wait for her Dad at the train platform whilst I was in the car watching. Two ladies approached her in the 2 minutes before her Dad's train appeared to ask if she was OK. They still watched whilst she hugged her Dad and I gave them a slightly embarrassed 'thanks' wave when they saw me.

OP, just looked at the thread and saw your answer. You didn't want to drip feed and included her age (again, why is this relevant?) but didn't mention she was following you and told you to go home?

I just think you could have said all of this at the start!!! Then you would have got that so desired badge.

Not from quite a few of us actually

OP earned her badge for the way she dealt with unwarranted and uncalled for parenting advice and judgement. She dealt with it politely and with a smile on her face, without raising her voice or being rude.

In fact, she's earned it doubly on this thread against the judgemental and rude comments she has had to put up with here, from people who simply disagree with her decision, and could have done so without resorting to PAs.

That's why OP wanted the badge and why she deserves it.

I hardly think a 75 year old woman is a worthy adversary to be proud if defeating

You've never met my mother then