To credit MN for the way I handled this rude woman at the shops?

[Primafacie]

... When I felt a bit hurt, humiliated and angry at her comments?

I had an encounter this morning which up till now I thought only ever happened on Mumsnet :)

I was food shopping (M&S, not that i think it's relevant but so I am not accused of dripfeeding) with my DCs (aged 2 and almost 5). I always park their scooters by the store entrance (on the inside), which itself leads to the inside of a shopping mall, and is guarded by a staff member. We (and the store) are in a very safe, family friendly area.

As I was heading for the tills, DD nearly 5 asked if she could wait for me by the scooters. I said yes, as she is very sensible, I was only going to be a few minutes, and in my own risk assessment, this is not a risky situation.

Two minutes later, I emerge from the queue with my shopping and DS in tow. A woman (I am guessing around 75, again not really relevant but don't want to DF) is talking to the security guard by the door, pointing to DD who is waiting by the scooters. She sees me and says 'is this your child?' Conversation then goes like this:

Me: 'Yes she is'.
Her: 'I really don't think it is advisable to leave your child here, anyone could have kidnapped her'.
Me: Rrright. Well, I disagree,and I think she is perfectly safe here.
Her: but you are wrong. Anyone could have taken her. This is really dangerous.
Me: Well, that's your view. I happen to think we live in a good society and I don't see abductors and paedos everywhere.
Her: but you are wrong, you see. She could have come to harm.
Me: so you have said, several times. Look, I disagree with you, and I am not interested in your views. I didn't ask for your opinion. When I was her age my mum used to send me to the shops on my own. Now please leave me and my kids alone.
Her: Happy new year.
Me: and happy new year to you. Now please can you stop following me?

All this without raising my voice, or stopping smiling :o

All the while she was trying to get the poor security guy roped in to tell me off - to his credit, he never opened his mouth.

Still feeling a bit offended, but meh - hardly the end of the world.

So, thanks MN. Can I get my shiny badge now?

The likelihood of abduction in a situation like the OP's is so infinitesimally small it barely registers, even taking into account the unthinkably huge impact of such a terrible thing happening.

The likelihood of a child (no matter how obedient) wandering off is relatively large. That child getting as far as the car park or the road (which, giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, was some distance away) absolutely does register, as does the risk of them encountering someone or something unpleasant and/or bewildering with which no 4 year old is equipped to deal.

There was an AIBU recently bemoaning those FB posts that start "If you were born in the 50s, 60s, 70s.." which I thoroughly agreed with. As someone born in the 50s, 60s, 70s I do wish that my son had some of the freedoms I did, but by the same token I remember some awful things happening to my peers and yes, encountered some situations that were nasty rather than character/independence forming (although not, thankfully, aged 4 or 5 ).

I totally agree that there are too many children wrapped in cotton wool (although there are plenty who aren't, and not in a good way). But there has to be a balance. There isn't a paedo on every corner, but there are some fucked up people around (even in an M&S in a "family friendly" area - whatever that is). And each year of course there are also thousands of under-16 year old pedestrians injured or worse.

I said upthread that chances are I might have made the same judgement call as the OP - it's impossible to know without knowing the exact circumstances. What grates however is that those of us who suggest that it might not be such a great idea are accused of hysteria and pearl-clutching.

Johnny What grates however is that those of us who suggest that it might not be such a great idea are accused of hysteria and pearl-clutching.

I respect your views, and as I have said upthread, I accept that other parents would make different choices. I have not made pearl-clutching accusations on anyone. But you cannot deny that there is some hysteria on this thread.

I used to like to give my DC a little bit of freedom when they were little until one day when I was a supermarket with them (Ds at 7, Dd at 5). I was at the checkout and they were standing just beyond the checkouts at the wall (where the noticeboards, boxes, charity displays etc are).

They werent' misbehaving or bothering anyone, but I suddenly heard a scream and looked up to see that my Dd had leaned against the wall but hadn't noticed (nor had I) that the sliding door pulled back over where she was stood.

What I saw was her left arm and leg behind the glass door and the door still trying to open and push against her head! Luckily someone hit the emergency door button and the door closed itself again. My Dd was Ok, a couple of bruises but nothing awful. It just didn't register to me that she was standing in a dangerous place because the door had been closed when I had looked up at my Dc.

I didn't let them out my sight in shops for a good few years after that.

Joining this pretty late on. Some of these comments are funny.
My youngest is 6, she plays out in the street with a little group of friends all similar age. I can usually hear them, they pop in and out. Supermarkets on the other had. I don't let her out of sight. Maybe tragic news events have stayed with me and I haven't realised. I'm pretty laid back parenting wise, but letting a 4 year old out of sight in a busy supermarket makes me nervous tbh. Dd is quite an 'old' 6 year old. If I told her to go and wait at the supermarket door I know she would stay put. At 4 years old I think she would possibly try and come back and find me which could result in her becoming lost.

Wtr to giving children alcohol. I let ds (24) have a beer on NYE, he took one sip, screwed up his face and poured it out.

I respect your choice to treat your child as you see fit and also tp post about it although I found your glee at posting a bit churlish, ad I said up thread.

I don't see any hysterical posts although this thread now has grown an arm on another thread

Ds (14), not 24. I'm not that strict :)

Fair enough, Prima :)

Prima, I think you have been remarkably restrained and polite throughout this thread. You have made your point most sensibly and if I didn't agree with you (which I do) I would certainly listen to your posts over and above those who have been nothing but rude and sarcastic. All credit to you (add it to your shiny badge )

Lol, wreck - I tried to ply ds (13) with the tiniest half-inch of Cava at midnight on NYE, for the toast, and he was appalled

Meh, this thread is a massive anti-climax.

It's only interesting/funny/entertaining if we, the readers, don't sort of, maybe slightly, agree with the person telling off the OP...

I think the best thing is to just accept that there are many shades to what makes a good or a bad parent.

There is no point suggesting that a snippet into someone's life makes them a bad parent or a child abuser or any of the other insults that get bandied round on this forum.

Yes this thread has grown an offshoot.

i wouldn't have left my child of 5 there alone tbh

on reading your OP it looks like you were the rude one. At least you can credit Mumsnet for that

Ha Johnny I guess I should be pleased. The friends he used to hang out with were all out getting pissed as ds informed me after logging on to FB on New Year's Day. He muttered something about them being idiots. I didn't tell him that's what I was doing at 14...

What Gecko said.

I'm not going to judge someone for not letting their child wait at the doors with a security guard. I don't see why some people get to judge those that would.

We all do things differently but to call someone 'disgusting' because their view on parenting differs is beyond the pale and not on.

Geckos telling people not to make snap judgements.

< sorry, straight face>

I have a DD the same age and I wouldn't have left her. I'm just visualising the local M&S to me in SW London which sounds like a similar set up to what you have described in a 'safe' and well to do area and I still wouldn't chance it. I know they love that bit of independence but I would be anxious all the same.

Good Lord Sweet Jesus there is NO WAY I am allowing ds to know what I was up to at his age. A sip of cider wasn't the half of it.

Leaving a child in a safe place unsupervised is not neglect. People who would berate a mother for that are idiots

The irony and hypocrisy in that statement is staggering after what you have done on this site in the past Geckos.

Words fail me!

^ that was in response to Wreck

IamInvisible take a breathe then have a damn good snigger.

I have been at the sherry whilst cooking Christmas dinner mark II.

I had to drag my chin off the floor first, Classy!

"Children are hundreds of times more likely to be killed in road accidents while riding in cars on the school run than they are of being abducted by a stranger."

Just out of interest what do you base that statement on? Children are highly unlikely to be killed in cars - 20 children died in cars as passengers last year. Obviously many more were seriously injured.

By contrast in 2011/12 - in 2011/12 19 children were killed by an adult who was not a parent or step-parent. Obviously some of those children could have been killed by non-family members in the family home. But the incidence of convictions for child abductions is surprisingly high, as high as the incidence of homicide. And the two categories should be exclusive (though I'm willing to be corrected by any passing criminologists).

Is it possible you are under-estimating the risk of abduction and significantly over-estimating the risks posed by car travel?