to think that he is entitled to refuse this

[messclearer]

I have name changed for this as it is very sensitive to me and my family and I’ll try to keep it as broef as possible.

My sister is gay and her and her wife (they have a civil partnership) have wanted to have a child for some time. I have a younger brother who is 19 and one months ago Dsis and DSil asked him whether he would donate sperm for artificial insemination. DSis has implicitly stated that this is what was going to happen was going to happen for the last few years without ever telling him and no-one in the family has ever challenged her (I accept that this is partly my fault). My brother initially told them that he would need to have a long think about it but last week told them that he did not to do it. Since then my sister and the family and some of our family friends have reacted very nastily towards him, my mum and dad uninvited him from Christmas dinner and my sister sent him some very nasty texts along with telling everyone that he is dead to her and that she has no brother etc.

I feel that it is his choice though and the reason he gives for not doing it (he would feel uncomfortable around a child he had biologically fathered but was not their parent) is a reasonable one regardless of whether you accept it or not. I saw him yesterday and he is shell shocked by the whole thing and the way that most people he has known since he was very young have turned on him. I feel terrible for him as he has suffered vitriol from most member of our family in the last week or so for making a legitimate choice. DH seems to think that the initial reaction is expected and although it is unpleasant at the moment, it was an inevitable consequence of this decision in an emotionally charged environment but that it will inevitably blow over. I feel horrendous about the whole thing for him as so many people have turned on him for making a choice that is acceptable in my opinion alongside the ridiculous assumption on the part of my sister that he was certain to agree to this request.

your db sounds really mature and sensible for his age his reasons for the decision he has made are good ones. Even if he has no responsibility for the child financially or emotionally it is a huge life changing thing to do which is why counselling is offered to those who are considering donating egg and sperm etc

Your family are being totally unreasonable and awful to your db, I really hope you will have the courage to stand up for him and tell them this and also to let him know you understand and respect his decision and his rights to make it!!

One more point, it is possible this may not be entirely correct but my understanding from gay women couples I have cared for is that choosing a donor they can both use to become pregnant (sorry not a great choice of words, cant think how else to put it) is ideal and prefered because then they can each have a child using the donor and the children will be related

MrsDeVere Sat 28-Dec-13 20:14:52

"Sounds as if another reason they wanted your brother to do it is because of the family dynamic. He is the 'baby' of the family and they think they can dominate him. That means they think there will be no trouble keeping him away once the baby is born."

I thought this excellent post deserved repeating; sadly, I think MrsDeVere is spot on here. What the hell are your parents thinking of here, OP? Your sister is just a selfish shit, what's their excuse for treating their son so appallingly?

I cant get over the fact your parents were near enough pimping their teenaged son out and had been planning to do so since he was very much a child.

I can't get my head around this.

Who the fuck do they think they are?!

It's the bullying and ostracising that makes this whole thing so terrible (personally don't have a problem with the concept if all parties were in agreement and a little more mature to make that decision).

Your poor DB, I can understand why you are trying to have a foot in both camps, but from your posts, I think you know you have to stand up for him.

I don't necessarily have a problem with siblings donating, but that sort of thing should be an offer, it should never be asked, and certainly never assumed. The ramifications are far reaching for any child conceived with donor insemination and there are also very good reasons for using a clinic to manage the process. Not in the least because of the counselling required before undergoing treatment to ensure that the parties involved have thought through their choices and what the will be telling their child about their familial relationships and conception.

What's the current legal position if there's a civil partnership involved? I think I'm right in saying that if a married couple have a child, irrespective of where the sperm comes from, then the only people who might be liable for child support are the couple themselves. ie, I don't think a woman can pursue her lover for child support if her husband leaves her, even if there's incontrovertible evidence that the lover is the father. But I'm not sure

Not correct (well in the uk) if you do not use a licenced clinic then the csa can still chase the donor.

And in the case of infidelity resulting in a child its also incorrect, yes the married father has pr (that can be removed very easily) but he would not be liable for csa and the biological father would be.

Children born as a result of private donor agreements not carried out in licenced clinics do not have the same rules applied to them as ones done under hefa

Ethically , even if it was the wife who is impregnated he will still be the father of his sister's child, since presumably sister and her wife will treat the child as theirs. The yuk factor there is almost as bad as if it were incest in the legal sense.

I wonder if you'd think the same if a sister donated an egg to her infertile sister?

I don't that is the yuk factor here. What is the yuk factor is the assumption that DB would be the donor from the point when he was a child, and without asking him; followed by all the ostracising for someone who has made a reasoned and carefully thought-through decision.

www.gov.uk/legal-rights-for-egg-and-sperm-donors

Fucking hell, I would dump the lot of the nutters.

Your parent's especially, horrible.

As others say, if your dad is so keen on this why doesn't he donate?

Support and look after your brother and stay away from the crazy people.

Fine to ask, not fine to assume or apply any pressure whatsoever.

I agree that what is being proposed is fine,

But the emotional blackmail is absolutely not fine, nor the planning to harvest the brother's sperm, presumably before he was even legally an adult.

Sock, that doesn't apply to couples in civil partnerships since 2009, if the child was conceived within that civil partnership, consensually and without sexual intercourse being involved on the part of the donor, then the donor has no rights or obligations.

This is abusive. It is not O.K. I hope he has somewhere to stay and some support away from these family members at this time.

perfect

Your right I've just checked,I hadn't realised the 2009 change had happened.

Is it apsolute? And no other criteria other than timing of insemination and not via sex that has to be complied with?

(But I am correct about the same sex couple and infidelity)

Sock at the clinic before iui takes place the non receptive partner has to sign a legal document stating that they will be the legal parent of that child. Therefore at the point of separation, should it happen, the non biological parent still has responsibility/rights over the child.

I'm another who thinks it's not unreasonable to ask, and I can understand wanting the genetic link. But they should ask, and then it is entirely his choice, and which 19yo would choose his first child to be brought up as his nephew?

It's not like being an anonymous donor (even if you're not actually anonymous these days) to a couple you've never met - if your sister and her wife have a child, you're going to be part of their life one way or another. I wonder if he were an older brother, who had already had his own family, if he wouldn't mind so much then? But even then, some people wouldn't want to do it, and in any case, he's not in that position, he's 19, and he doesn't want to do it, and that's jolly sensible of him. Much better than men fathering children all over the place without another thought to it. He's being responsible and adult.

They should be respecting his decision and not hassling him over it. I'm glad he's got your support.

The thing tbat weirds me out most about this is that tbe sistwr has been eying up the brother as a sperm donor/dad/uncle for a fair few years and none in the family has said a) don't be so fucking crazy, this is the most staggeringly stupid idea I have ever heard. b) casually mentioned to the poor wee sod that his nut job of a sister has got her eye on his sperm and considers it his brotherly duty to get her wife up the duff.

The whole whole family seems round the twist for evrn considering the sister's scheme. Utterly fucked up family dynamics.

shocked and appalled that so many of your family are comfortable with pressuring your brother to father a child he doesn't want. Had a quick scan of the responses...why not send a link to this thread in an email to the lot of them? Perhaps they need a bit of a reality check and have just been assuming that this arrangement was a given for so long that they're no longer looking at it clearly.

Oh, and definitely show your brother the thread...he needs all the support he can get to make sure he doesn't allow himself to be bullied into a situation he's clearly uncomfortable with.

Poor guy. He's only 19 and coming under this kind of pressure from the very people who should be supporting him. Choosing to bring a child in to the world if perhaps the biggest decision anyone can ever make, and certainly is not one that should EVER be forced on someone - and that's what people are trying to do to your Dbro. Glad you are sticking up for him.

I agree that your DF should donate if he thinks its such a great idea!

Ugh, your poor brother. I can't believe your family would react like this. I personally don't think it's a good idea for him to donate to your sister's spouse; I think it could cause a lot of strife in the future. Regardless, though, he shouldn't be pressured to do it.

Your family are behaving in a vile manner.

I find the set up itself odd, I accept many others wouldn't.

I have a friend who politely and as sensitively as she could, declined her sisters request to be a surrogate and before that donate eggs. She was only just out of her teens. She didn't want the first child she carried to not be hers/see the child born of eggs she donated raised as her neice/nephew.

Her sister reacted badly initially but the rest of the family were agog she had even asked given friends age at the time.

I'm glad your bother at least has you fighting his corner.

Why can't your dad donate, if the genetic link is so important.

I can see their reasoning for wanting him to be the father - obviously if your DSis can't be the father, her brother is the next closest thing genetically. DH has (only half-jokingly) suggested that if we ever decide to have more DC (he's had the snip), we could get sperm off his identical twin brother as the genes would be the same!

BUT.... the way they are treating your DB is awful! Assisting someone else in their fertility, be it through donating eggs, sperm, being a surrogate or even giving up a baby, is such a personal decision and never one that should be made lightly or to coerce/bully someone into. Your family should be ashamed of themselves. I hope you are telling them this and supporting your poor DB.

I've read all the OPs posts.

Is abusive and akin to rape in my eyes. They plan to pressurise this young boy into reluctantly fathering a child for his sister.

A brother willingly donating sperm is one thing - this is absolutely ducking horrendous, he is young and vunerable and this is a family willing to abuse him in this way.

Just awful.