Friend, her DCs, and me 'punishing' them unfairly.

[youarewinning]

Had my friends dcs (8&10) last night for the night as her and her DH had a child free family event. I'd booked cinema as a surprise.

She stayed for coffee when she dropped them off and kids went to park opposite to play on DS (9) remote control car he got for Christmas. I tell them to come in at 3pm as we're going out. Youngest tried to negotiate but I refused to engage and said 3pm please. Friend got a little defensive saying she always tells them 15 minutes earlier than she wants them in as it gives her negotiation room.

Anyway friend leaves and I get things ready for trip. DS comes in at 3pm and says the other 2 said they could stay out as it wasn't dark and their mum doesn't mind them being late.

DS is very upset (has SN and these things do upset him more than others) so I calmed him and gave him a snack. At about 3.20 I thought I ought to go and get the others as we needed to leave at 3.45. As I'm getting my shoes and coat on they come back. I ask them to go to toilet and get coats etc as we are leaving in 15 minutes. I also said to make themselves a drink. DS is finishing his snack at this time and youngest asks for one. I said no time now as late back but I had snacks for them. She gets in a strop and storms off. Tell other 2 to ignore her and get ready as we have to leave. Then finally persuade dc2 she won't drop dead of starvation in next half hour and we need to leave. By now it's nearly 4pm. Film starts at 4.15. Get to town at 4.10pm and park and then I tell them what surprise is. They were very excited. DS asks if we can get sweets but I said too late now as running late but I had some chocolate and crisps and a drink each in my bag. Walking up stairs I hear dc2 start slagging me off to my DS. DS shouted at her so even if I'd not heard the whole cinema then knew about it!

I tell her not be so rude and she should have done as she was asked if she wanted things to be her way after.

I'm not a teller, or a rusher etc, more a natural consequences person. So just kept going on with plans treating all 3 dc equally.

We went to Burger King after and they all slept well. Friend collected them at 10.30am stayed for a coffee and left about 11.30.

She rang me about half an hour ago telling me both her DCs were distraught, why would I refuse them food and drink, I should have gone to find them to come in when they were late for the 'curfew'.

I just said they were not refused, they choose to ignore the curfew and therefore had no time for snack, they had food at the cinema, and a Burger King. I then said her youngest had been quite rude to me and about me.

She then said I 'knew' when she gives her girls a curfew it was always 15 minutes earlier than they actually needed to be in/ she wanted them in to allow for them to negotiate later and/ or be late. (What I've witnessed is the youngest arguing over everything times she's been given for most things and her mum agreeing to a different time). Therefore she feels I punished them unfairly.

I pointed out she was there when I reiterated they needed to be in at 3 and they chose to come in nearly half hour later and they were not punished.

So who is right here? I'm left feeling like a prize bitch but yet feeling there wasn't much else I could have done other than make us late for the film?

Look, she's rubbish at this. You might have known her a long time, but none of the stuff you're citing is unreasonable. What she's claiming IS unreasonable.

Want to deal with your determined child? How about some modicum of parenting in reality? If a kid drops something, expecting them to pick it up is NOT strict by anyone's definition. If she thinks it is, no wonder the kid is "determined" - it works! If I didn't have to obey any rules (picking up, being in on time, not screaming rude things in public, not insulting people who were taking me to a movie and BK, and all I had to do was refuse and then manipulate my mother so much that she would try to get everyone else to capitulate to my demands as well, I would do it, and I'm 43!

The thing is though, no one, from work, family, certainly not friends, and definitely not my enemies would go for such a plan. Not one of them.

If the kids did have special needs, then it is a bit different. As in, if your son would stay with someone, you'd say "look, he will come in on time, but be warned that he needs the reminders about getting dressed X minutes before, etc." Thats not negotiating, and it definitely is good parenting. So EVEN the kid for whom special accommodation would be made knew to behave better than this.

As others have said, she made a rod for her own back and now she's living with the natural consequences. And since the kids have had it this way for so long she's going to have to hang very tough to change it because they won't think she means it when she says no. And they've got good reason for that - she's got form big time.

Just because you've known her a long time makes her an old friend. It definitely doesn't make her a good one, and she hasn't been. She's got bratty kids and she's blaming you. Not a peep about how her kids lousy behaviour affected your SN son. Vile.

Well, your friend is incredibly rude and ungrateful, I can't believe that she would ring you to complain after you've had her kids for her overnight, and treated them etc. Her kids sound pretty awful too. I would be mortified if my dd behaved like that in someone else's house.

Having said that, I wonder if you were trying a bit too hard to prove a point? If they returned at 3.20 and you had to go out by 3.45, was there really no time for a quick snack? I'd have thought they could have had a piece of fruit or something and still manage to get ready in plenty of time. Likewise, did you really decide against buying sweets because you were running late, or was it because you already had snacks in your bag and knew that you didn't need them?

It sounds to me that perhaps you disapprove of your friend's approach to parenting (perhaps with good reason), and decided to teach the kids a lesson. I'm all in favour of children learning about natural consequences, but can't help feeling that some of these consequences were created rather than imposed. Perhaps the kids felt that there would have been time for a snack actually, and that you denied them this because you deliberately wished to punish them? That wouldn't necessarily be wrong, but perhaps a bit disingenuous to pretend it was a natural consequence if not actually the case.

Regardless, you were still doing your friend a favour by having the kids overnight, and it was nice of you to treat them both, so they are being unbelievably rude in complaining. They should be thanking you for your kindness.

She should be thanking you, reprimanding her kids, and settling the costs you went to. Anything else is just extremely ungrateful. she sounds like a crap parent tbh.

Your rules. You were in charge, your rules.

Your friend is rude. I would think twice about having her kids in future.

The 15 minutes is that if she wanted them in at 3 - she would say 2.30, so they would ask for 3, she can say 2.45 and knowing they'll be late they'll be in at 3

My friend does something similar with her teens. If she wants them in at 10, she tells then 9.30. They negotiate an extra 15 or 30 minutes. They think they have gained another 15 or 30 minutes, whereas all they have done is come in at the desired time! They do not know she does this, so if they are late (even if they negotiate to 9.45, but come in at 10) they are in big trouble. Because they are later than the agreed time.

Your friend has it all arse about face, if they are later then the agreed time, they should be told, otherwise they take the piss out of everyone else, as seen here.

What the frig is negotiation time?!!

Come in now means come in now!

Your friend sound like a right arse!

jenai I think you've hit the nail on the head about how in thinking. There was on conscious intention to make a point that they had been late so they had no snack just that when they came in, took shoes off and went to lol and then had a drink and then asked for a snack we had 10 minutes so my automatic response was there is no time now but I have some in my bag for when we are out. Because of weather here ATM we needed to get ready with coats, hats, gloves etc so knew we needed to start getting ready 5 minutes before we had to leave.

Because my DS needs constant reminders (eg now put your hat on) I'm used to getting ready at a time to leave at a time.

The sweets weren't something I'd planned on getting. We do usually get them so can understand why she asked. Tbh if we'd have got to tow on time I would have given them £1 each for a packet or something - there's a pound land right next door. Tbh at this point I knew they'd want pic n mix and really begrudged spending that much on sweets when they'd been taking the piss. So I guess that was a deliberate point scoring exercise (sounds pathetic doesn't ?)

Maybe my friend realises I was being a deliberate arse towards the end and that's what's pissed her off?

I'm really struggling with this. We've spent lots of time together with and with children over past 6 years and seems daft to end it over a disagreement in parenting styles.

If she's willing to end it over that rather than say thank you for having them, then you're better off. As long as you didn't treat her children any more harshly than you would have your own, then consciously or not, you haven't done a thing wrong. It also means that if you do have them in future , they'll do as they're asked & not take the piss.

youarewinning refusing to let your friends DDs arse around over pick and mix when you had sweets and they were running late is a natural consequence not deliberate point scoring! They can't expect pick and mixjust bbecause they have had it before! And if you refused because you were frazzled - well that's a natural consequence and one they should learn to expect.

I would call your friend and point out they all had a snack -DS at home and the girls at the cinema, they saw a film and had a burger king. No-one was starved or deprived. No-one was given preferential treatment. You are sorry they didn't have a good time, because you wanted them to and went to time and money to make sure they did. However, if they cannot cope with things happening ever so slightly differently in someone else's house and aren't going to be grateful then you aren't minded to look after them again.

Sorry , fail to see how you were.being a deliberate arse. You were showing that every action has a consequence. If the younger xhild chooses.to disobey then the knock on effect has to be shown.
You did nothing wrong

I don't understand your determination to blame yourself. It's bonkers.

[comfused]

Fail

If my kids told me they didn't get a snack but they got dinner out, I would say how lovely.

If they told me they didn't get a snack because they missed the curfew, I would say you should have go win then, how silly.

And then in the phone call, I would say thank you so much sorry if they were any trouble.

Her attitude is odd.

I've taken kids to the cinema before and not got them sweets - sue me.

However stressed she is, she should have thanked their lovely host, not whined about doing things differently and wanting more snacks.

But HotheadPaisan, the point is that if you ask someone to have your kids overnight while you go out, then you should expect them to behave while they are there. My kids negotiate every single point (which drives me mad), but they would never be so rude as to try it at a friends house, just as they would not do it at school. And if they did I would be mortified, not phne up and complain about the other mum.

But letting them argue an extra few minutes isn't actually compromising is it.

And besides, she has a child with SN who she also had to explain things to and set timings for and quite frankly should have been able to rely o the other two to follow instructions so as not to upset and confuse her own Ds who wouldn't have understood.

Yanbu I have a few friends who are frightened to say no to their dc and the dc concerned are becoming completely unboundrie as a result.

Are you the mum hothead

Cos following a simple instruction isn't hard. What needed compromising exactly?

I'd be blowed if I'd spend all day having planned something nice fir the children , negotiating and compromising every single point just to "take the heat off" one defiant little madam.

They were lucky they went at all tbh after their attitude. They are spoilt.

youarewinning I dont think it needs to be curtains on your friendship, unless your friend is daft enough to let such a good friend as you slip through her fingers. You showed good down-to-earth parenting skills of your DC and common sense approach to her DC to try to make sure you got them to the cinema on time (has she really forgotten you were actually doing all this for them to have a lovely time, not just for your own entertainment?). Incredible!

Room for negotiation? What?? Back in the day it was met with :

"Stop arguing the toss!"

Future scenario for her DCs:

[prospective new boss]: Your start time will be 9.00am

[ argumentative friend's DC] whines ... but at my last job they let me turn up at 9.30!

[prospective new boss]: bugger off, we'll get someone else.