To have pushed this woman's hand away?

[SparkleSoiree]

Earlier in the week we stayed in a hotel en route to elsewhere for a couple of days.

At breakfast in the hotel it was just myself and my DD(6) who has Autistic Spectrum Disorder and Sensory Processing Disorder. One of the traits is that she can't bear to be touched by people and gets very rigid, defensive and anxious when people do touch her. We don't receive affection from DD for this reason.

The waitress came to the table and asked us what would we like for breakfast. DD was still thinking and I was slowly running through the options with her showing her pictures off of the menu. The waitress then started to run her fingers through DD's hair from her fringe backwards asking what she would like to eat. At this point (without thinking) I immediately put my hand on hers and brushed it off of DD's head. She looked shocked and taken aback and I said "Please don't do that, she doesn't like it."

I have never had to do it before but the waitress was clearly offended as somebody else took over at our table but was I being unreasonable in the way I approached it? I am still trying to figure out how to advocate for my DD when out and about as she is non-verbal when out in public with strangers but I don't want to offend people because they cannot see she is Autistic and don't mean to offend, I'm sure.

WIBU?

If someone suddenly started stroking MY hair, I'd not be gently brushing their hand away, it'd get slapped away without a second thought.

It's out and out RUDE for a waitress to do that, aside from the personal space issue, it's unhygienic FGS.

So she was mortified you called her out on touching your DD? Tough tits. I'd not be happy if anyone touched my DS either and he isn't autistic, nor does he mind being touched tbh. the fact of whether he minds or not is irrelevant, strangers don't get to exert their rights over children just because they are children.

YANBU, she's lucky she didn't do it to my DS, i'd have been a lot less gentle!

No, you WNBU.

You knew how what she did was affecting yr dd, IMO you were absolutely right to prioritise your dd over the waitresses discomfort.

In your position I would feel bad about upsetting the waitress, but actually I think I would try to dismiss that feeling. She got a good wake up call that it is really not ok to just randomly touch children like that.

My dc are NT but I know 2 of them would be totally freaked out by her behaviour.

I actually feel really angry on your dd's behalf and think its good that the waitress felt embarrassed and bad, she hopefully will modify her behavior in future!

I wasn't FFSing the OP, whose reaction was fine as I said in my previous post. I'm FFSing people who would be "angry" and "horrified" at someone touching their kids in a perfectly friendly and non-threatening manner, and I stand by my FFS in that case.

Joy I am 40 too...I keep up by reading newspapers (other than the daily mail!) and also Mumsnet.

No you dont have to explain your DD has ASD, it was enough to say she didnt like it.

I dont agree with all the 'she was only being friendly' shit. You dont go around stroking random people

Awfully overfamiliar what was the waitress thinking! If she'd done it me or my child I'd be and ask her to stop immediately. I don't want my waitress delivering the toast to my table after she's been running her fingers through randoms peoples hair.

"I dont agree with all the 'she was only being friendly' shit. You dont go around stroking random people"

Quite,I thought it was pretty standard not to touch people unless you know they are OK with it?

I don't think it's necessary to explain why someone doesn't like being touched. If someone doesn't like it, they don't like it.

If there has to be a reason we're essentially saying to kids that it's ok for them to be touched.

There was no need for you to touch the waitress and brush her hand away.She didn't intend to upset or offend you or your dd.A simple "sorry my dd has sensory issues please don't touch her"would of been fine,ywbu for being physical.

Thank you for all your thoughts/opinions. Considering your responses and on reflection of the events in my mind I think I handled it in the best way I could have. I instinctively put my hand out to brush the woman's hand from DD's hair because I know how anxious and upset it makes her feel to have people touching her in any way at all. I surprised myself at how I did it without thinking. I don't think being a child means their personal space should be any less respected than an adult's personal space.

A few have suggested telling the waitress that DD has ASD but again I don't feel comfortable disclosing that kind of information to strangers . If someone was to disclose personal information about me in a public forum without warning me or asking me permission first I would be upset. The fact DD is only 6 - I'm not sure how much difference it makes. She knows she has the disorder, she has her own strong thoughts about that and the obvious differences it has created for her within her peers and she doesn't like to talk about it. If I were to mention it in public where she is non-verbal that would create more anxiety for her. It would then build up until we got home where it would all then come out. We are lucky that DD has an excellent team who work with her where she can talk about those feelings.

My daughter has only been diagnosed just over a year, we have just completed the Early Bird course and are still adjusting so maybe in time we will feel more comfortable doing certain things. I don't like offending or upsetting people but I know I have to protect and advocate for DD first and foremost.

Some days I know I will get it wrong, but I hope I get it right the majority of the time - without offending the world in the process!

A bloke fell on the chair next to me at a concert the other week, he landed on my arm, which hurt, my instincts were to lash out defend myself/space. I didn't hit him, but was about to...

You did the right thing, the waitress was way out of line. If she was offended by a mother defending her child's space, so be it.

I get that you feel so strongly about respecting people's bodily autonomy, but then it's kind of ironic, surely, that you touched the waitress to stop her invading your DD's personal space

Impofdarkness yes, exactly.

I was surprised that I did it without thinking. But then I am someone, as mentioned upthread, who will touch someone's arm when chatting or something. I will also rethink my behaviour when interacting with people as a result because I never realised it could provoke such strong responses or that as many people don't like it as there seems to be.

I don't think you were being rude at all. It's not okay to invade other people's space, whether it is a child or an adult. Why should you have to explain it?

Your put your DD first, rather than worrying about the feelings of a complete stranger or feeling embarrassed about being seen as 'rude'. Your DD is lucky to have you.

I absolutely hate being touched by strangers, especially unexpectedly, I become completely stiff & silent until they back off. I am sorry if that reaction makes "touchy types" upset but really they should think twice before pawing at people without asking permission

You weren't being rude. She was out of line. A child's personal space shouldn't be invaded any more than an adult's, and certainly no hair ruffling of a presumably unwilling-looking child by someone involved in food prep./ delivery.

I once smacked the hand of a woman in a lift, a total stranger who leaned over and laid her hand heavily on my pregnant belly. I think of myself as having taught her a valuable lesson about social boundaries.

I don't think you were unreasonable but I'd have phrased it differently. "I'm sorry, would you mind not doing that please? DD really doesn't like being touched." said with a smile and eye contact. The waitress was over familiar but it was just a mistake on her part.

No need to explain further if you don't want to though.

YANBU.

Touching someone briefly on the shoulder - fairly normal.
Patting someone on the back - fairly normal.
Stroking someone's hair - not so normal unless a relative or close friend. I suppose the only situation I'd say where it was normal was if a child was crying as in a comfort thing.

I'm a very touchy feely person but I don't tend to touch others children unless they are a relative or the child is visibly disturbed, because I don't feel it is appropriate.

I'd have to think I was upsetting a child though with what I was doing so if I was to do that I would want you to move my hand firmly but not aggressively and tell me that she doesn't like it. I would wonder why perhaps, but that's because I am sensitive but I'd rather know so I wouldn't upset your daughter any further and I would sincerely apologise.

I also think in a professional capacity (in work, basically) it is strange to touch others, but perhaps that is just me.

You handled this absolutely fine. :)

When i worked in a hotel we had to have our hair up or back and never touch them.

I am sure she meant well but she was lucky the manager or a fussy customer wasnt around. It is one of the first rules in hotels and catering.

Dont worry too much OP you havent done something offensive, you can not put a sign on your dd.

YWNBU to protect your DD,but all those implying that it was inappropriate or over familiar of the waitress are BVU - She was just being friendly and interacting with your DD and some people are simply more tactile than others and although society would deem this sort of interaction a no go amongst adults I wouldn't be horrified if someone touched my DC's when interacting with them - 80 % of communication is non verbal.

Most of us live in a world surrounded by the NT and it probably wouldn't have occurred to me or her that the gesture may cause distress to your DD.

I don't know what the answer is and although I have a knowledge of ASD (thanks mumsnet) the facts are Its not a situation that most of us would routinely or even ever come across - the waitress would probably have been very upset to realise that she's caused distress to a child,but it would be a sad world if people stopped making friendly gestures to small children on that basis.

Going against the grain somewhat, I think YWBU to push the waitress' hand away. I understand it was an entirely instinctive gesture on your part, but I think a polite verbal request would have been better. I know, easy for me to say!

It sounds as though the waitress was just being friendly. Perhaps your tone combined with the physical pushing her hand away was harsher than you intended? I can understand why she was upset, TBH.

some people are simply more tactile than others

Tactile people, and I am one myself, MUST learn to give others space. You DON'T get tactile, unless you know it's okay with the person concerned.

In my family we are all very tactile, so going out into the real world when I was a late teen was a big eye opener for me, and I learned to respect other people and not invade their space. It took a few painful lessons for me to "get" this.

I think the waitress was wrong in the first place for even stroking the child's hair, whether or not she knew if that child had SN. I think stroking hair is crossing a big boundary and is something very personal (unless you're at the hairdressers, anyway).

Jeez I can't believe how wound up people are getting over a friendly, well-meaning waitress stroking a child's hair. Haven't we all had our own hair ruffled when we were kids? How has this got into some kind of socio-political debate? Only on Mumsnet FFS. Lighten up people!

I wouldn't want someone running their hands through customers hair and then serving food, a waitress shouldn't be doing this.

Patting is one thing but running hands through hair is more intimate and shouldn't be done to a strange child when you are in a work capacity.

I would of pushed her hand away, I wanted my DD's to know that they have to give permission before they are touched.

The NSPCC's latest PANTS campaign covers this.

Ruffling hair isn't the same as running a hand through, far to personal without a "what lovely hair you've got".

You can be verbally affectionate without physical contact, that can follow if the child wants to engage.

If you work with the public you need to be aware of these things.

My eldest had an incident on a train with my youngest DD being demanded to say her DOB by a conductor, she hadn't maintained eye contact enough to his liking and hesitated giving her DOB, she was 15, he didn't think she wax a child and thought we were ripping off the train company for £3.50.

He wouldn't go somewhere private or take the phone so I could tell him she had LD's. My eldest had to announce it Infront of a full carriage. He wanted her to pay the extra she stood her ground and demanded he got the police. He had to back down and go on his way.

You shouldn't have to announce your disability to the world to be left in peace.

"Most of us live in a world surrounded by the NT and it probably wouldn't have occurred to me or her that the gesture may cause distress to your DD."

You do get the occasional (NT) child who doesn't want to be randomly touched by strangers.

However, I agree that the training on hidden (and disabilities in general) is inadequate.

I don't think it's usual to start running your hand through a child that you have just met when the parent is trying to choose what to have to eat with them, tbh.

My NT 3 year old would be unnerved by a total stranger running their fingers through his hair, and he is generally a friendly/outgoing kind of child.

YANBU to push the woman's hand away. You also shouldn't feel obliged to give any more explanation than "she doesn't like it".