To be negative about choosing single parenthood?

[Dixy30]

Hello

Think I am here.

Saw a good friend today who has another friend I know pretty well for about 10yr but am not an independent friend of and lives elsewhere.

Anyway this friend is 30 brought up by single mum & has hada douche boyfriend who already has other kids for a few years.

He always said u get pregnant, i end it and u never see me again.

So friend is now pregnant (was an accident not sure of details)& he is true to his word and gone. She is saying this may be last chance at parenthood (she is 30) and will live with her mum who will help.

I would never say this to the actual woman but I was very negative when I heard this. About the man too. This person is going to have such a tough time doing it alone I just feel so sorry for her eg will get virtually no maternity leave, is totally reliable on her mum etc.

What would other people do? I don't think I would have been able to have a relationship with this man from day 1 given his attitude.

Actually, I provided evidence to the contrary (that 2 parents are better than 1), but that doesn't fit your tight specific requirements, so I'm saying show me the evidence which supports YOUR decision.

Interesting. You quote from a book titled "Families: Beyond the Nuclear Ideal".

Teeeeeny bit biased don't you think.

How about this:

"Young adults conceived through sperm donation (or “donor offspring”) experience profound struggles with their origins and identities.

Sixty-five percent of donor offspring agree, “My sperm donor is
half of who I am.” Forty-five percent agree, “The circumstances of my
conception bother me.” Almost half report that they think about donor
conception at least a few times a week or more often.

Family relationships for donor offspring are more often characterized
by confusion, tension, and loss.

Nearly half of donor offspring (48 percent) compared to about a
fifth of adopted adults (19 percent) agree, “When I see friends with their
biological fathers and mothers, it makes me feel sad.” Similarly, more
than half of donor offspring (53 percent, compared to 29 percent of the
adopted adults) agree, “It hurts when I hear other people talk about their
genealogical background.”

When they grow up, well over half (57 percent) of donor offspring
agree, “I feel that I can depend on my friends more than my family” – about
twice as many as those who grew up with their biological parents.

Donor offspring are more likely to have experienced divorce or
multiple family transitions in their families of origin (particularly single mothers by choice)

Regarding troubling outcomes, even with controls, the offspring
of single mothers who used a sperm donor to conceive are almost 2.5
times as likely as those raised by biological parents to report problems
with the law before age 25. Similarly, even with controls, the offspring of
single mothers who used a sperm donor to conceive are more than 2.5
times as likely as those raise by biological parents to report struggling
with substance abuse.

Source

Here's the part I tried to bold:

even with controls, the offspring of single mothers who used a sperm donor to conceive are almost 2.5 times as likely as those raised by biological parents to report problems with the law before age 25. Similarly, even with controls, the offspring of single mothers who used a sperm donor to conceive are more than 2.5 times as likely as those raise by biological parents to report struggling with substance abuse.

The thing is that the solo parents on this thread aren't desperately trying to justify why their choices are better than those of someone who chose coupled parenthood. We don't feel the need to justify our choices, and we're not saying that one way is better than the other. We've all acknowledged that what works for one family does not necessarily work for another.

It's the coupled parents that are so insecure about their own relationships which are trying to justify why they do it so much better than a single parent. Like it's some threat to their own special relationship if someone else can manage just fine without a man in their lives.

Funny, I always thought my healthy relationship life was possibly because I was never indoctrinated to accept shitty behaviour from a male, or to think having any boyfriend was better than none...

Oh, and an obsessional need to know one's biological ancestors is not universal. But, hey, certain people have already demonstrated they think adoptive families are sub-standard. Merry Christmas to you too...

Wombles Hope you know, we're discussing single parenthood by choice on this thread. I am in no way saying single mothers who have been left by a man are bad parents. Then why are you posting all this stuff on a thread about a woman who has been left, in response to supportive posts on that very subject, eh?

Womble's first bunch of stats:

1. Self reporting on how much childcare/ domestic work you do is notoriously unreliable. Both men and women are known to wildly over-estimate the amount of domestic labour and childcare men do, while underestimating the amount women do.

1. All the stuff you report about how "children of lone parents do xyz bad thing" are all because of what I said earlier - on average, lone parent families are poorer than coupled families and that is why those outcomes are poor, not because of the lone parent thing.

If you want to improve outcomes for children of lone parents, you don't do it by telling women that they have got to live with men they don't want to live with. You do it by ensuring that there is no systematic difference in poverty rates between children of lone parents and children of other parents. But funnily enough, not many people are interested in tackling that. They'd far rather people were brought up in dysfunctional households with two parents, than in single parent households.

"Because some people can't maintain a relationship with a man they decide for selfish reasons to have a child. Their wants are more important than the child." LOL. No mention of the fact that some men are unable to maintain a functional relationship with a woman (they're v. good at maintaining a dysfunctional one). The message here, is that women should put up with shitty men because we are responsible for the maintenance of relationships. That sounds like a good deal for women, doesn't it? As if.

And LOL at Ruby's sources being biased. Because all Womble's are really independent and don't have an agenda at all, oh no.

Funny, I always thought my healthy relationship life was possibly because I was never indoctrinated to accept shitty behaviour from a male, or to think having any boyfriend was better than none...

Oh, and an obsessional need to know one's biological ancestors is not universal. But, hey, certain people have already demonstrated they think adoptive families are sub-standard. Merry 0
Wombles Hope you know, we're discussing single parenthood by choice on this thread. I am in no way saying single mothers who have been left by a man are bad parents. Then why are you posting all this stuff on a thread about a woman who has been left, in response to supportive posts on that very subject, eh?

What statistics demonstrate is that, all other things being equal, having two great, reasonable, loving parents in your house is better than just one. No shit Sherlock. I expect stats will find having loving grandparents is better than none, too.

But you can't apply statistics to individuals. In real life, individual circumstances apply. Abusive spouses, downright miserable marriages, toxic grandparents. In real life, women don't choose between being Anne Blythe (the name of Anne of Green Gables after she married Gilbert Blythe) and being a single parent.

For example, despite callous smug comments earlier in the thread about married bio-parents being best, I know people who were taken into care because they were being abused by their married bio-parents. Thanks for denying their lives and real experiences, dude. Thanks for doing your part to continue the cultural bias that meant they probably were left in abusive environments longer than a child of a single parent would have been.

After all, prioritising the word "marriage" over children's welfare in the real world, where abusive men and women exist, is exactly what I've come to expect from family campaigners and the like.

P.S. I am married and happy. I just don't fool myself that a marriage certificate is a magic talisman that means I don't have to put any effort into being a decent parent. Frank and Rosemary West were married...

Bugger, sorry didn't know my last post was on the clipboard

Basil you seem to be ignoring the fact that poverty is linked to being a lone parent because it is causal - there is an inherent lack of financial resilience compared to having two parents. Also the question is in relation to our current society, so even if someone is fighting for a society that ensures lone parents don't live in poverty, that isn't a future they can guarentee, at the moment it is a significant risk.

Personally I am very much not saying that women should stay in dysfunctional relationships, I'm saying that choosing to have a child as a lone parent may not be a wise thing to do, and the OP's fear for how hard t might be for her friend is not unfounded, though things may work out well. In this country at this point in time, it would be more sensible to try to find a stable, good partner or some other set up with other adults who will take responsibility for you and your child's wellfare, or not have a child. That's not the same thing at all as saying women should stay in dysfunctional relationships.

I'm not sure there is an "inherent" lack of causal resilience - in the society we have now there is, but it is not inherent or inevitable.

I think everybody else is ignoring the fact that the arguments for not having children as a lone parent, are exactly the same as those for not having children if you are poor. To paraphrase what you said, you might as well say that in this country at this point in time, it would be more sensible to try and ensure that you earn at least £30/ £40 £50K pa/ insert sum here, or not have a child. There are lots of revolting people who do argue that poor people should never reproduce and there always have been, but IMO respectable decent people recognise that the right to reproduce in a civilised society must not be confined to the rich.

Yes Ruby it's a bit ambiguous - what constitutes "choosing" to be a lone parent?

If you've had children in a relationship and then you realise that the man you've had them with is unable to function as a partner and father so you throw him out, is that "choosing" to be a lone parent?

If you find you're pregnant after you've split with someone you'd intended to stay with, is that "choosing" to be a lone parent?

Choice Shmoice. Never know what people mean by it.

I wasn't talking about anyone's right to have a child (though I don't think people have a right to children - they aren't some kind of commodity). And saying it is wiser to get financially secure is entirely different from saying poor people should not reproduce. I am countering some saying the OP's concern is unfounded. Despite the great lives of many single parents, they are not the majority. Most single parents struggle. They struggle largely because of poverty, which they are far more likely to end up in if they are single parents.

I do think resilience is directly and inherently connected to the number of capable, committed adults living in a household with a child. I don't think States aren't constant enough in their actions to be relied upon to provide long term so it's a matter of those with a more immediate connection. Doesn't mean two is the ideal number, in fact I think the nuclear family lacks quite a bit of resilience, especially around stable relationships. Something along the lines of the Mosuo family arrangement, for instance, seems more stable.