To be negative about choosing single parenthood?

[Dixy30]

Hello

Think I am here.

Saw a good friend today who has another friend I know pretty well for about 10yr but am not an independent friend of and lives elsewhere.

Anyway this friend is 30 brought up by single mum & has hada douche boyfriend who already has other kids for a few years.

He always said u get pregnant, i end it and u never see me again.

So friend is now pregnant (was an accident not sure of details)& he is true to his word and gone. She is saying this may be last chance at parenthood (she is 30) and will live with her mum who will help.

I would never say this to the actual woman but I was very negative when I heard this. About the man too. This person is going to have such a tough time doing it alone I just feel so sorry for her eg will get virtually no maternity leave, is totally reliable on her mum etc.

What would other people do? I don't think I would have been able to have a relationship with this man from day 1 given his attitude.

Sparkly Like I said , the people who grew up with fathers are telling me what I think is wrong when I grew up without a father so my points are very valid.

So you don't think children need a father. Maybe if you grew up without one you would think differently?

Of course it is about my child. That's entirely what my counselling was about, whether I had considered the impact on my child. The reason I chose the donor that I did was for my child. The reason I chose not to get knocked up at the pub was for my child.

But this is exactly what the phrase "never argue with an idiot, they just drag you down and beat you with experience" is about.

You sound very sensitive and defensive.

I think kids follow the example set. I also think its circumstantial as well. If you live in a small, narrow minded town then yes it might have more of an impact that you don't fit in to the mould. I live in London. No one cares here, no one thinks anything about other people's situations. I also think if you are being set the example it's a big deal and your main carer is moping around not being positive because they in turn have been told what a shameful or bad thing it is to be a single parent family then it's likely you will feel it more.

Midnight you do not sound sensitive OR defensive. You sound frustrated at the narrow minded obstinate attitude that is being displayed towards your choice, even though you have tried very hard to explain and discuss your situation. Lights seems to think that he/she can speak for ALL children growing up without a father because he/she struggled with it.

Well I know what impact not having a father has had on my children.

It means they've grown up with a mother who has taken complete responsibility for their happiness and socialisation, without being undermined by an irresponsible, dishonest, dysfunctional alcoholic. Their main male role models have been my brothers and friend's, a teacher an athlete, a musician, who give them different models of positive manhood and an affection untainted by competition for my attention. They have grown up with a mother who has had the freedom to examine her own childhood and the parenting deficits therein and who has been able to make up for it - which would not have happened if I had been with their father because like all dysfunctional relationships, it depended on both of us being in denial about how dysfunctional we were and not fixing it.

I have no doubt whatsoever that my children have grown up in a happier household, with a happier mother, than they would have done if they'd grown up with their father living with us. They haven't seen a dysfunctional relationship role-modelled as the norm, they haven't seen a mother who would probably have been a raging alcoholic by now if she'd stayed with their father, yes there is possibly less money than there would have been (although I'm not sure, he was doing a jolly good job of siphoning off family money), but emotionally and psychologically, my kids are much better equipped to face the world than they would have been if they'd had their father living with them. I really have no doubts about that and tbh I don't care about ignorant people who assert that having their wastrel father leeching the joy, energy and money out of the family would have given them a better start in life.

MS I don't think you sound defensive either. I just think you sound like you can't be arsed to take seriously someone who isn't actually making any sensible arguments, is just demanding to be told that we're all wrong really because our kids are horribly disadvantaged by not having an adult with a penis in the house. Which is tiresome.

I conceived twins through donor sperm. I was brought up by a single mother- no idea about my father at all. As a kid, I was fine with it, until I hit my teens when it felt like it marked me out as being different. Tbh, that was do with an anxiety disorder and actually nothing to do with being a fatherless child, like my anxiety was nothing to do with being the only one with blonde hair etc; but just picking up on anything to worry about.

My two DC are in their teens now, and I had a further child who is their biological half sibling, with donor sperm. They all understand it and accept it and are happy with it, in that it is their normal. Sometimes I wonder what having a dad is like iyswim, I can't imagine it, but not in a sad way, just in the same way I'd wonder what being tall/rich/a man or whatever is like, nothing significant or important.

I don't think it is a negative. If I had a choice, I'd have had my DC with a loving partner. But I think that is more for me, I know the DC are meh about it all.

"I think kids follow the example set."

The focus on this thread has been about Mothers, but there is an increase in single men becoming parents and a recruitment drive of LP Foster Carers and Adoptive Parents.

So our Government and those in control of Child Services do not see a LP household as a poor alternative, given the right circumstances (and that does not mean shed loads of money).

Everyone has a Mother and Father, whether you need to have both in your life whilst growing up, or ever, to be emotionally well, is yet to be shown, there is no evidence of this.

MidnightScribbler I did not say and do not think people are having children to live off benefits. I think the state steps in to a minimal amount to support people who are unable to support themselves. More than 50% of single parent families receive benefits and single parent families are twice as likely to receive benefits as two parent families. That's doesn't go away because some families do well. The current single parent family structure lacks resilience around economic self-suffiency.

LightsPlease What about the children not having a father and how that impacts them. No one has mentioned that. I find it incredibly selfish.

I never felt particularly impacted. Would you like to call me a psychopath as well as selfish, or something?

I grew up without a father at all. It never, ever, ever bothered me. I won't claim I'm a perfectly balanced human being, but all the things that have negatively affected me have been actual issues, not the absence of someone who I hadn't met in the first place. Children who are abandoned by a parent they knew and loved are impacted by that. But who is responsible for that pain? The abandoning parent or the one who stays? Me, I think the former, despite society's pathetic urge to blame the target who is visibly a parent.

And if I had been affected by it? If every single child from a single parent family was always "impacted" by it, I would still disagree with your idea that single women should abort wanted babies to save them this later angst. What other things do you believe it's "selfish" for women not to terminate for, may I ask? Physical disabilities? Increased risks of mental illness?

Seriously, you know, even the people I know who were abandoned by a NRP after a painful divorce and were affected by it, say life wasn't so bad that it would have been better not to exist...

Like I said who here has grown up without a dad (not one who worked alot or was emotionally absent) but completely without?

Me. Completely without. Didn't meet him until I was 18 at a funeral. Have met him a couple of times since, because I felt obliged to, but there's no "special connection" in the way people like to gush about. And it never, ever bothered me. With the greatest of kindness, I think you should get counselling about the way you feel, rather than accepting it as the way you're meant to feel without a father.

I am absolutely certain that growing up with an abusive or neglectful father would have been worse.

Emmeline - in my experience, there is a very big difference financially between women who have chosen to parent alone; and those who have been left by the fathers of their children. The latter group do suffer financially - because the economic foundations of their family is founded on a two-parent model.

I spent six months claiming IS as a single parent when I was setting up my business. Before that, I was a higher rate taxpayer and I am again and I think that's fairly typical (and I would assume that's the case with MidniteScribbler's examples too)

LightsPlease - how do you think your life would have been better if you'd had a father? Genuine question

OddFodd - it may be more the case for people who have planned on having a child as a single parent. I haven't seen any figures so can't know, but it would make sense that someone who plans would plan finance too. But that would seem to be a function of planning. There is still less resilience when you only have one person who can work. If you were comparing one parent families who plan against two parent families who plan, I suspect you'd still see a significant difference in the percentages living in poverty.

*Personally I don't find being a single parent to one child that difficult (multiple children will be significantly harder), I find it a lot easier than when DP was around.
So good for her I think smile

I love being a mum and everyone should get that opportunity to be a parent if they wish to because it's wonderful.*

I tried so hard to ignore this post, but then you continue talking about your enjoyment of single motherhood throughout the thread that I can't bite my tongue any longer.

It's all "I" this and "I" that. What about the child? Wouldn't they prefer two parents?

Yes, my daughter would prefer to have a father in her life. She would also prefer not to go to school or after school club, eat sweeties all day and watch TV 24 hours a day.

However, her preference is based upon a dream that she has seen in the movies. The dream of that perfect life where we can all do/have exactly what we want and where dads are these perfect beings. Unfortunately life isn't like that.

Has she suffered because her father isn't in her life or is there some gaping hole or deficit where a father should be? No. Only a preference.
Does that mean that she shouldn't exist or that her life is an unhappy one? Absolutely not. In fact like others have said, she is a very happy emotionally balanced young girl.

30 could be her last chance??? Why?
Don't get that comment

No child is ever guaranteed two good parents for a whole childhood. People divorce. People die. I have a friend whose mother died and whose father was totally shit at parenting. She would have been better off with two parents. I know another woman whose father abused her appallingly from age 4. She would have been better off without him. What would you say to their pregnant mothers if you could go back in time? Have the baby? Don't have the baby?

There is bugger all point in criticising people for exercising the small amount of choice they do have in the matter, because all of this is up in the air and uncertain when a new life is created. Having a baby means creating a person whose life will be imperfect. A loving home with adequate care is fine, whoever's doing the parenting.

Parents are good parents because of how they bring up their children, not because they are in a two parent family.

There are plenty of shit two parent families, there are plenty of good two parent families.

There are plenty of shit single parent families, there are plenty of good single parent families.

I think judging families by how many parents there are is silly as they are all individual families with their own differences.

But I have to say I have the utmost respect for anybody who can manage a small baby with little support, it must be very hard if you don't have someone to help you out so you can nap etc.

However, her preference is based upon a dream that she has seen in the movies. The dream of that perfect life where we can all do/have exactly what we want and where dads are these perfect beings. Unfortunately life isn't like that.

Having a dad isn't perfection, it's normality.

And most dads aren't twats.

she is a very happy emotionally balanced young girl.

And you're basing that on what comparison?

Too many people in this thread are devaluing a father's role in childhood. Some are even erasing its importance all together. Data shows that married bio mum and dad is the best setup for a child.

People split up, it's true. But to actively and knowingly conceive a child knowing they will only have one parent from the very start IS selfish. Just look over this thread, it's all "I wanted", "my feelings", "It works for me", "I like it". It's all about the mum.

"Having a dad isn't perfection, it's normality."

Actually historically it isn't necessarily normality. We don't know how many people grew up without either a father or a mother. Life expectancy was quite low even if you exclude infant deaths and the number of children whose mothers died in childbirth or whose fathers died of smallpox or another lurgy, was quite high. Many children have historically grown up without one of their parents living with them.

"And most dads aren't twats." We don't know the figures for that. We also don't know what the technical definition of a twat is.

"Data shows that married bio mum and dad is the best setup for a child." Did you not read the thread then? When properly examined, data shows no such thing. What data shows, is the best setup for a child is to have at least one very high earning parent. If you have a household income of less than £40,000 (for example) and you have children, then you are being really very selfish because you are disadvantaging them compared to the children of people who earn £40,000+. If you only earn £40,000+ and you have children, then you're also being selfish, because you are disadvantaging your DC's compared to the people who earn £50,000+. In fact, having children at all is selfish because there's no need to, but so what, in that sense what's wrong with being selfish?

"Just look over this thread, it's all "I wanted", "my feelings", "It works for me", "I like it". It's all about the mum." No, it's not, again you haven't read the thread properly. There is plenty of stuff about the children and how good it is for children to grow up in happy, functional households where the parent is confident enough to know that she is able to raise children with or without another adult to co-parent or to undermine, depending on that other adult's preference. You've just ignored those posts, that's all.

Did you not read the thread then? When properly examined, data shows no such thing

"Rates of serious child abuse are lowest in married families; six times higher in stepfamilies; and 14 times higher in always-single-mother families"

Source: this book

No, having a Dad isn't normality, it's brainwashing propaganda.

You're inferring that any family setup that doesn't include a Dad is therefore abnormal.

What's normal is being raised by parents (however many) who love, cherish, respect their children, raise them to have manners and morals and respect for other people, who work hard in life and have a strong work ethic, etc.

I'm a single parent (not by choice) and my children are quite happy, thanks. We've moved away from where we used to live and they love where we are now, they get to see their grandparents several times a week, they're all doing brilliantly well in their new schools - DS is happier than he has been in years actually.

Oh and funnily enough, guess who put in the vast majority of the work raising the three of them until my ex decided he wanted out? Clue: it wasn't him. Guess who's now doing it all. Clue again: it's still not him.

He was rarely there. His friends and family were always more important and demanding of his time than we ever were. We were a burden - he only realises how much he loves the kids now that they're not there. He wasn't a great role model either - DS was a constant disappointment as he wasn't into football and is highly strung (a 'tart', to use ex's lovely description) so used to get upset a lot.

The kids aren't crying for Dad. We've had a couple of tearful episodes, but really they're quite happy as they are. They now have my Dad as a strong role model, who loves them for who they are, rather than who he wants them to be, and my two brothers, who are both weird and wonderful and eccentric, providing strong male characters who do things their way, regardless of what society thinks.

So, exactly why is my ex more important to my dc than the other male role models who show their appreciation for my dc being the great little individuals they are? Is it better that they have a Dad around just for the sake of it, a Dad who really isn't all that interested, who wants to mold his sons into football-loving, misogynistic (the tales I could tell!), pissheads like pretty much all the men in his family? Or are my dc better off with men around who love them exactly as they are and boost their confidence and self-esteem every single day?

I know what I'd choose.

That book is based on North American families.

We're not in North America, we're in the UK - completely different situation.