To complain about this??

[absentmindeddooooodles]

My ds is 2.9. He goes to the nursery down the road one day a week. ( cannot afford for him to go any more regularly) just to get socialised and to try and work on seperation anxiety. velcro child syndrome

Went to pick him up today and was met by three of the nursery workers "wanting to have a talk".

This got me really worried as they looked very....strict. like I was being bloody told off.

To cut a long story short....they told me that as my son is still in nappies I would have to think about taking him out of nursery until the problem is sorted!! ( problem him not being potty trained)

They talked for a good ten mins about how its an inconvenience to them having such a big boy needing constant monitoring incase hes done a poo.

I didnt want to get into an argument and never would infront of all the kids, but did put across a couple of points:
. He is in "the baby room" as they call it. Babies from birth to 3 years. There are fewer older toddlers than babies....so I imagine they should be all set up forpchanging nappies.
.theybe never said anything to me before about him being in nappies being an issue. I have even had discussions with his keyworker about the favt that I had tried potty training him but he got a v bad bout of chicken pox right in the middle of it so we have gone back to square one.
. I dont personally think he's too old to be in nappies. He's not 3 until april and as long as he isn't rocking up to his first day of school in pampers Its fine.
. He is currently undergoing a diagnnosis for adhd and possibly as. It's bloody hard enough to get through the day without making him do something hes not ready to.

Their response to all the above was that he is more than old enough to be using a toilet and by him not doing this its taking time away from the babies who actually need looking after!!!!!

Out of the three of them who spoke to me....the youngest one ( about 16 on placement) told me it was disgusting to have to clean up a fully grown childs poo!

Im reeling and actually v embarassed as there were quite a few other parents round while this was going on.

Now I know ianbu to not be impressed with the way this was dealt with......but aibu to not have potty trained him by now?

Should he be totally out of nappies by this age? This is my first dc and moat friends dc are younger thn mine. A family member had their dd totally dry through the night by 2.5....but all kids are different.....surely its down to the individual?

Im sorry this has been so epically long...but am at a loss!
.

We have just removed DS from reception at one school as he was made to feel disgusting for soiling himself with a valid medical reason.

He's now in a new school and a different child. He had been so anxious and belittled it was horrible.

I would move to a different nursery if you can. This really isn't on.

Definitely complain. It's shocking that they actually said all of this in front of him! Doing it in front of other parents is extremely unprofessional too.

For comparison, my DS didn't potty train until around his 3rd birthday. His (private) nursery had no issues with him still being in nappies and very supportive when it came time to potty train him, which really helped.

I'd try and find him another nursery if I were you. This one does not sound great!

Im so pleased you wont be sending him back. Imagine what they may say to him when youre not there. Fuckers.
There must be another way to get him out and about! Have yiu looked at school nurseries for when he is 3? Not long now. I hope they go on to have chikdren who are stillin nnappies at 3, as many are and remember this with horror and shame

My 3.5 year old is in nappies. The nursery just say that he will potty train when he is ready. They are totally unconcerned.

Thanks for all the views. Its hard to know if you are taking things to heart or not when dc are involved.

I will definatley be complaining and taking this higher than the nursery itself.

Do you think its best to write a letter straight off or phone first etc?

Ds has just done a poo.....and cried. Seen fucking red now. Poor little thing.

As others have said, and you know yourself, they are completely in the wrong for all the reasons people have said. Also, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that adults looking after children of any age have a duty of care to make sure the child is clean/hygienic. My DS has ongoing toiletting issues and he is 7, and his teachers occasionally help to clean up his poo if he soils. Not a nice job, and I'm sure its not in a teacher's job description, but they do it so they don't have an uphappy and uncomfortable child while they are responsible for him.

I hope you get a proper apology from them.

Because potty trained toddlers aren't icky at all? My dtds are 2.3yo and have been potty trained in the last few weeks because they have an older sister and were copying and asking so showing the signs, originally I was thinking next Easter or the summer just before they are 3. tbh I wasn't ready, they were! But surely you still have to wipe their bottoms when they poo even if they go on a potty, and you clean the potty so still dealing with the poo. Would they really allow him to go unaided to the loo at his age? Surely not and therefore that can take more time than nappy changes - it does with mine as often they think they want a poo only to find it's wind so regular trips accompanied by me take far more time than nappy changes!

The fact they spoke to you in front of him is totally unacceptable, and what they said and the way it was said was just awful. If they came and said "he's showing the right signs for being ready so would you consider potty training?" that's one thing but their approach was nonsense and presumably by people who don't realise each child has different stages at different times.

I'm not a confrontational person but I would have to put my brave mummy face on and very calmly and patronisingly tell them they are wrong and if they would like me to talk to ofsted who could advise them on handling such matters I would be more than willing - see what reaction that gets. Or you can say he's potty trained and let him wear pants that day then they'll have to clear poo up from more than just his bum! :)

That's awful doooooodles

Agree complain,complain, complain. 2.9 is not too old for nappies.

But I think I would still be inclined to leave my DC there, especially if he was settled and you've had problems when you've tried other nurseries (this is assuming the nappy changing barrier can be overcome - surely the children centre's manager could not agree with this policy?)

I would speak to the manager in person and decide from that conversation who to write to and what to write. But I would take notes with me so I remember what I want to say and don't walking thinking I'd forgotten anything. Good luck

I would put everything in writing and keep copies of everything you send and receive. That's the best thing to do with complaints.

When DD was in private nursery (some 9 years ago) there was a documentary on where they sent a teenager into some nurseries with a hidden camera. There was footage of one young girl working with toddlers and saying to another girl 'I hate the way he (a child) looks at me. He looks like a mong'. Same nursery wouldn't give a toddler a biscuit until he said 'ta' - he didn't understand and they went on and on and on at him. The woman said 'he's not getting it until he says ta'. He didn't get the biscuit .

There was stuff from other nurseries too. It haunts me to this day. It made me wonder how many childcare providers there are that inadequate and staff that couldn't give a shit. How many young girls go into childcare because 'it's just looking after cute babies'? Worrying.

The only other nursery around here is run by the same damn company...and the staff to amd fro to cover sick days/ratios etc.

I dont drive right now but the second I pass that test he will be into a differwnt nursery. ( he wont be going back to this one in the meantime)

Its really comforting to hear that alot of dc were of a similar age/older when they started to potry train.

We've had so many behavioural issues with ds that I wonder wether my view can be a bit skewed/out of touch.

He didnt speak until he was two. ( now cannot shut him up for the life of me) so its onpy this year that communication has got vast amounts easier.

He sat and told me last week that "when im a big boy ill use the toilet mummy. But im still anlittle bit little. My big boy when im 3 like (relative) "

I think he got it spot on. :)

Are there any pre schools or playgroups near you? I used them for my 2 year olds before they started school nursery. I wasn't working so 3-4 hours twice a week was fine.

Heartbroken that sounds awful!! Those poor kids.

It really makes me worry about who they actually let work in these places.

My next door neighbor has a 2 yo girl. She is inly 17 herself. I apprexiate it must be bloody hard but her chold is always dirty, shouted at, given absoloute crap to eat and just shoved in bed so she can socialise.........and the mother has just got a job at the partner nursery. As horrid as it sounds I wouldnt trust her with my ds! I spend moat days councilling her over the latest person who shes slept with and the fact that shes got no money for fags.....and then when she gets back feom work moaning about how noisy the kids were and how much she hates it one wewk in!!

I know no-one is perfext and believe me ive screwed up enough aspects of parenting as it is....but shouldnt there be a standard they have to meet? A level of care.

Agree with everyone on here. Sorry I have to make this short , but yes yes yes to complained very loudly to various senior people. Disgusting? They are indeed disgusting, absolutely foul. How dare they make a child feel bad about themselves. Angry on your behalf, your poor little one.

Mine didn't train until 3.5, and daytime trained in a few days with no problems at all. I had also had a few comments by the junior and rubbish staff in his preschool class, not as blatantly nasty as yours but lots of snide stuff.

including them saying he wouldn't be allowed to move up to the nursery class until he potty trained. Which was a problem as the staff in that class made ds very unhappy for many reasons. Anyway, Wasn't true. Complained v loudly to manager of nursery. Ds never went back to that class, moved straight up to the nursery class and blossomed there.

Hi, just read your original post, don't have time to read all of the replies so sorry for any possible cross posts. IMO yadefinitleynbu!

I think the way they spoke to you was hell of a rude, and totally goes against generally accepted beliefs about potty training. It is well known that premature attempts and too much pressure can have a very negative impact on the whole process. I would put your foot down about this, baring in mind his possible ADHD and other issues (such as him only being in one day, and already struggling a little bit from being apart from you). Ultimately it is up to you as a parent.

My dd is 3.4 and is dry, but still has regular poo accidents and wears nappies at night. I'm in no rush right now to put extra pressure on her to change this, apart from lots of praise and encouragement when she does managed to use the toilet.

Yes theres a couple of playgroups ( all at the xhildrens centre) I take him to those already....was more the seperation anxiety I wanted to tackle with him before he has to go to school/preschool.

But n the absense of nursery they will be sometjing good to carry on doing. :)

Just to give you an idea of how this should be done (or at least the way I do it!)

Imagine a conversation with a parent coming to look round the nursery where I am a teacher.

Parent - My dd is 3 and starting at your nursery in January. She is still in pull-ups.

Me - "that's not a problem. We have children at lots of different stages. Some are completely toilet trained, some haven't started yet, some are just starting. Even those who have been toilet trained for some time are likely to have accidents when they first start nursery because it's a new place, with new people, and lots of exciting things to do. Let me show you where we change the children's nappies. Before we change a child's nappy or pull up, we encourage them to sit on the toilet (special small size) to start them getting used to the idea of using the toilet one day, but this is always their choice.

WHen you feel your child is ready to start toilet training, we will support you. if we start to feel they are showing interest at nursery, we will let you know and you can decide whether you'd like us to start trying."

I have children of 4 in nursery who are not yet toilet trained. In that scenario I tend to have a gentle, private conversation with their parent to discuss it and suggest that it's something that we should work on together in the lead up to starting school. I've only ever known one child not be reliably toilet trained by the time they started school and in that case, there were reasons to do with SEN.

I'm absolutely appalled that you were spoken to in the way that you were and that the nursery has such appalling, outdated and discriminatory practices. You need to complain in writing very, very strongly to the owner of the nursery. If you know which college the student is from, and you know her name, I would be very tempted to phone her tutor and put in a formal complaint as well.

Cheeseandjamontoast's partner here.
Just for some background, I work in early years and have done for 3 years now. This sounds disgusting and the fact that three members of staff have confronted you on this is in my opinion, unprofessional and intimidating. Don't even get me started on a 16 year old, presumably a student if they are on placement, telling you it's disgusting. IT'S THEIR JOB ! And to be honest, they have no place talking to parents, that's the staffs job. As for your DS, I would not expect him to be toilet trained yet. I had a key group mainly comprised of boys of this age and the majority of them were not toilet trained. This was not a problem as they weren't dry or clean and had no interest yet. This whole incident needs reporting to ofsted, as the setting CANNOT ask you to remove your DS due to him not being toilet trained. Although I would advise that you remove him for his sake, as they don't seem like they will be doing much for his self confidence and self esteem with this attitude.

My chatty, confident DD who started preschool in September and is flying along didn't potty train until 3.4.

She wasn't ready and I had zero interest in pushing her or making a big thing of it...she was probably ready a month or so before we tried, but we were moving house and having a baby so it kind of went on the back burner!

She was trained in a couple of days, literally. One day of wet pants and then, ahh - I get it.

Fab.

I would keep everything to email. I wouldn't actually have a meeting as I think you might get flustered or upset - I would, I'd be raging.

Instead I'd make sure I crafted a calm yet utterly furious email describing EXACTLY what was said during the meeting - as close as you can - write it as if someone who wasn't there is reading (they will be!)

Then set out in bullet points everything that was wrong with the entire episode.

• Utterly unacceptable situation in the first place. Contravening EYFS guidelines (quote what you can) on child development and their role in providing care and working with the parent.

• Utterly unacceptable mode of communication with you. Using inappropriate language to describe both the child and bodily functions - 'disgusting' - ?! Tone of meeting showed aggressive, unsupportive attitude to child and his development. Your trust that they can provide a caring and nurturing environment for your child is utterly destroyed: your child will not be returning with immediate effect.

• Utterly unacceptable that meeting took place IN FRONT of the child. Child has since shown signs of being distressed at own bodily functions.

• Utterly unacceptable situation re chain of command and the situation with the placement student. You were shocked at the fact that management thought it appropriate to conduct meeting in front of a placement student of only 16: you were indescribably MORE shocked to be subjected to said student making an aggressive and inappropriate comment to you and in front of your child. You will be expecting to hear that she will be disciplined for this; in the meantime, you intend to report back to her place of education on the incident with a recommendation that she is removed from placement with immediate effect. Someone of the opinion that a child's bowel movements are 'disgusting' is clearly not suited to a job in childcare.

You conclude with your concern at what this incident says about the level of care and professionalism at this nursery. You sincerely hope that the fact that their company has a local monopoly does not have a bearing upon how complacent they have become. This email is therefore forwarded to Ofsted, and you will be taking steps to make a full complaint.

Happy Christmas, manager!

Oh and if you don't know where the student is from:

Phone the other nursery and pose as mum to a teenager taking options next year. Ask if they have placement students doing childcare courses - which local schools/sixth form colleges do they have partnerships with? Could they tell you what schools would be good to contact to speak to form tutors/course managers...?

You should find out easily.

I'd absolutely make a formal complaint about the student. She may only be young, but characters like that are exactly the ones that need to be weeded out from caring roles as soon as possible.

I've had 20 years experience in nurseries and it's not on to do or say this. I've had 23 month olds fully trained while I've also had 4 year olds still in nappies. It is best to work with the child. It took a very patient member of staff to persuade an older child to potty train as he was saying he was a baby but he was scared.

If you don't get a satisfactory response, I'd complain to whoever legislates them OFSTED/Care Inspectorate sort of place.

Thanks so much for all the responses. Really helped me to get a clear idea of what I need to do and what to highlight in complaint letter/email.

Ds has said 3 times this eve that he does not want to go to nursery again and that hes not a baby. Am so upset for him that these stupid thoughts even have to enter such a tiny persons mind.

Glad you're not sending him back, little fella must be crushed if he understood what they were saying.

The nursery should be helping, not criticising and ganging up on you. At a relatives nursery they sit every child on the potty while they're waiting for a new nappy, if they wee it's 'hurray, you did a wee!' If they don't it's 'hurray, maybe next time!'.

Oh, and another reason I would contact her educational establishment is because if she thought it was ok to weigh in with an aggressive comment to you in the meeting, what the hell must the 'staff culture' at that nursery be?

So far in her placement she's clearly learned that parents do not deserve respect, that it's ok to make personal comments about the children, it's ok to sneer and be aggressive about and to them.

She was confident that her manager shared her opinion - can you see? Too immature to keep her opinions to herself...but at 16 they aren't her opinions, they're at least partly what she's learned about how you think and behave at work by wathcing and aping her supervisors.

'Bloody hell, another poo, that's DISGUSTING, why can't his bloody mother toilet train him...' - if she wasn't hearing that attitude, she wouldn't be thinking it's ok to parrot it.

I'd be pointing this out to the school/college and advising them to STOP sending their students to this company for any form of training.

YANBU
Both my DSs were potty trained by 2 and 9 months (DD1, by the absolute skin of her teeth) because preschool wouldn't take them in nappies.

They are teens, preschools can no longer make that ruling!

I spent several months with my fingers crossed, as DD1 especially would have been happier waiting to around 3.