AIBU to think Scotland are gonna have moring after regret

[Sadoldbag]

Just heard today that Asda and morrisons will hike there prices up as the store in the uk subsidise the ones in Scotland.

Also the persident of the European union has said last week on hard talk Scotland will not be able to jump the que on the back of the uk coat tails and will have to join and fresh and wait in the back of the que

And royal mail have also said they may stop mail to the far flung parts of Scotland if they go ita lone as they loose money in the shetlands ect and they would only be required to provide mail in the uk.

And it seems to me all the bits in the white paper are all assertions and weather they keep the pound ect is not actually up to them.

I think this is gonna be like ringing your boss when drunk it sounds like a good idea at the time

But They will regert it in the morining

Of course scots are not all the same, I am one. But the culture in Scotland is generally more nationalistic and parochial than in England IME.

Profundo - again, a lot of Dutch simply admit to being rude or outspoken. In fact some are proud of it, because it means they are not false, or afraid to speak their minds. Or simply laugh about it when some take it too far. Or bear it in mind to try to avoid causing too much offence. But if someone is getting too fat, they are better off knowing about it, no?

Its illuminating that you got all worked up about and said that anyone thinking that must be shallow and disinterested in getting to know the country better.

I love the argument that Scots do not deserve to run their own country, that they are just not capable due to their 'national character,'!!

From the English!! (and I'm English!)

But the culture in Scotland is generally more nationalistic and parochial than in England IME

Not in my experience, Grennie. Absolutely not. IME, we are not more nationalistic or parochial than people I've met in many other countries. But you know, I don't define my French friends as aggressively right-wing because of the rise of the far-right in France. Nor do I think my Italian friends must approve of political corruption and close-minded immigration policies because of Berlusconi. And I don't think my American friends must all be secret gun nuts. Even if the majority of people in the USA agree that they have a right to bear arms. On the contrary, in each example, my friends disagree with these notions. As I despise parochialism and close-mindedness. As I was raised by my parents to do. As everyone I associate with does.

Its illuminating that you got all worked up about and said that anyone thinking that must be shallow and disinterested in getting to know the country better

In what way is it illuminating, LessMissAbs? What aspect of my argument does that comment illuminate?

The interesting, and worrying thing to me is while Alastair Darling and friends rail at the SNP for not having a Plan B (if Scots can't keep the pound etc.) everyone in government here in England seems to assume its not going to happen. Where's our Plan B? - What happens if we vote in a Labour government in 2015, and then 50 Labour MPs disappear in 2016? Where do we park Trident? Aren't we going to end up with a more right-wing government for ever and find ourselves out of Europe? And how do we afford anything without oil revenue, and trade with Europe f*cked? Seems to me Scotland is going to be fine, but we're doomed and yet everyone down here has their head in the sand about it.

Rosso - So what do you think are the negatives about scotland and the scottish culture?

Riiiiiiight Grennie

Cos no-one votes BNP or UKIP in England, do they? Definitely no nationalism there....

And no-one thinks London and the South is the cultural centre of the universe, do they...

I think there are people within both cultures who are nationalistic and parochial. I see no basis for calling one out as 'more' than the other.

I grew up on a white wc council estate in south London: these people were conservative, racist, they loved Thatcher an The Queen. They read The Sun, cheered when the Belgrano was sunk and thought Mandela was a terrorist.
There were NF marches up the high street.

Racism is alive and well in England. It is aimed against BME people.
Scottish Nationalism is different in character. It is based on the idea that Scotland is a victim nation that in spite of the persecution, has some of the greatest institutions on earth.

But I know I am wasting my time here. I am used to scots who are sometimes obviously very nationalistic, denying they are. Or saying stupid things like they believe the information I am telling them about the Barnet formula is Tory propoganda.

Oh and for your information, nearly every Government is elected by a minority of the population. That is the way our electoral system works.

"Oh and for your information, nearly every Government is elected by a minority of the population. That is the way our electoral system works."

Yes, and it's pants. No wonder people are looking for a change.

I am used to scots who are sometimes obviously very nationalistic, denying they are. Or saying stupid things like they believe the information I am telling them about the Barnet formula is Tory propoganda.

Ditto - but I am not seeing much of that on this thread. I called you because you said Scotland was worse than England in this respect and I don't accept that for one minute. It doesn't then follow that I am very nationalistic or indeed stupid, because I'm neither.

lovefifteen

"So how is that any different from someone in the rest of the UK who votes blue and gets red 50% of the time and vice versa?"

Are you being serious? You don't see the difference in what you describe and an entire nation of 5million people with their own border, and their own identity, having to tolerate a govt they despise?

One Tory MP in Scotland. One.

Rosso - So what do you think are the negatives about scotland and the scottish culture?

Grennie, I don't think I can answer that question, because I don't believe there are absolutes in Scottish culture or in English or any other culture.

Things I would change about Scotland: I wish it didn't rain so much; I wish we were healthier overall; I wish they hadn't introduced a daft smart-card system in the Glasgow subway.

But I feel that asking me to define absolute negatives in the Scottish character/culture is like asking me to say all French people are rude or Americans are thick or Spaniards are racist, or indeed any other sweeping, unpleasant generalisation which can't be applicable to a whole country.

There's a lot of interesting discourse surrounding minority nations and victimhood - it takes in Scotland, Ireland, regions like Corsica, Brittany, Catalunya. And what you most often find is that most people don't define themselves or their national identity purely in relation to some perceived 'oppressor.' To say this is a general national viewpoint is to look at the most extreme view and ascribe it to the majority.

Oh, and btw - it's not only born and bred Scots who have a say in this. I have foreign friends settled here who will be voting yes, including at least two English people who are actively campaigning. It's to do with having control over what happens within our borders, and nothing whatsoever to do with anti-Englishism.

I agree the weather is absolutely shit. But that's what makes the mountains so greeeeen.

You don't think all countries have certain cultures? I certainly think there is a scottish culture, and England as the oppressor nation has played an important part in shaping that culture.

And I would say that the Scottish education system is a clear negative that has to be improved.

It's to do with having control over what happens within our borders.

But how do you do this when you want to use money which is controlled from outside of that border?

England as the oppressor nation? What on earth do you mean by that?

Sorry, the idea of England as the oppressor nation.

Annunziata

I'll be honest and say I don't know. I'm shit with money in my own life, never mind on a national level. No one ever has all the answers when facing a new challenge. Of course there are things that will be discovered along the way and it will be messy. The point is to look at the status quo and decide if it's working or not. Clearly a lot of people think it is not, and as I mentioned earlier, I'm leaning towards a yes vote but remain undecided at this point. However, there's no getting away from the fact that if we vote No, we will be absolutely hammered by a Tory govt. It's starting to look a bit like there's no choice at all from where I'm sitting.

I agree with you there Grennie

I'd say it was slightly more than an 'idea' tbh. Look at history. That shit runs deep. Part of the problem is the lack of acknowledgment imo.

The sooner Scotland gets their independence the better. I don't know why England is always blamed for all their ills but the constant bashing from some Scots is getting very tiresome

constant bashing??? yes as a nation we all stand up at 9.35 and have a 2 minute hate against the English!

and have you read this thread??? there has been far more scots bashing than english bashing

England as oppressor, I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. Oppressed is apartheid in South fecking Africa. Scottish people have all the same rights as English people, and we get more spent on us, how exactly are Scottish people oppressed?

Babanouche how can you support something when you don't how how it will work?! And if you think they will punish Scotland for staying, they are not going to be kinder to one that has left! People keep saying it is like an abusive marriage, well, you wouldn't go on Relationships and say, yes, divorce him, but it's a good idea for you to get all your money from him anyway.

I know it is impossible to have all the answers, but nothing has been answered. My husband and I have a small business, we need to know about our imports from England and the EU and interest rates. We are so worried about this.