AIBU to think Scotland are gonna have moring after regret

[Sadoldbag]

Just heard today that Asda and morrisons will hike there prices up as the store in the uk subsidise the ones in Scotland.

Also the persident of the European union has said last week on hard talk Scotland will not be able to jump the que on the back of the uk coat tails and will have to join and fresh and wait in the back of the que

And royal mail have also said they may stop mail to the far flung parts of Scotland if they go ita lone as they loose money in the shetlands ect and they would only be required to provide mail in the uk.

And it seems to me all the bits in the white paper are all assertions and weather they keep the pound ect is not actually up to them.

I think this is gonna be like ringing your boss when drunk it sounds like a good idea at the time

But They will regert it in the morining

I don't think there is any human or computer modelling that could accurately predict how this is going to work out, it could be brilliant, it could be a disaster. As someone born and bred in England I only get to watch and wait and in a lot of ways I'm glad as I have no idea which way I'd vote.

And English superiority complex rises to the top , again. It's all a bit "I hate you, don't leave me", isn't it? As soon as a suggestion comes that SOME Scots may want to leave Mummy's teat, the whole of the Scottish get tarred with a "fuck off, then" brush, leaving people like me (Black, born and raised in London) always keeping one eye out for the "switch" from "tolerance". That is why never mistake the word "tolerance" for "love".

I think what ever happens with the vote there will be regret which is a shame. I know a few Scots who have bought property in the uk as they are worried about devolution. Surely the bigger changes won't happen immediately but over a number of years.

Hang on - voter turnout was 50.4% in 2011 and 51.8% in 2007. That's 'most' .

Think I will scream if I read once more how university education is free in scotland. Yes, we don't pay tuition fees but for non-wealthy parents like us,dcs apply to SAAS for a loan to cover accommodation. Except it doesn't. Dds loan - loan, not payment- covers about two thirds of her rent in halls. We have to find the rest, plus all of her food and living expenses. She now has a part time job to try and help out. This week is exam week so she has Monday, work in shop all day, Tuesday exams, Wednesday work on shop all day, Thursday exams. Not ideal,but the only way we can afford to keep her there. If I am made redundant next year, which is a distinct possibility, she may have to leave. Uni education may be cheaper, but it sure ain't free!

Whatever the result, at least this is one occasion where what people in Scotland vote actually matters nationally.

You can't say that about Westminster elections, given that our voting patterns have diverged from the rest of the UK for decades now. Hardly a model of modern democracy.

Devolution for England, anyone? Solves the West Lothian question at least.

Who in their right mind would hand over their wages to their next door neighbour to give them back what they need to live on... oh wait. And the biggest risk I can see is that our next door neighbour might decide in the future to give us less than we need to live on, regardless of how much we have handed to them.

I hope that Scotland votes for independence and with the Commonwealth Games coming up in Glasgow this year the feel-good factor will probably work in it's favour.
As the message coming out of Scotland is that most of the people there are not happy being part of the UK, it's time for a parting of the ways.

Can I clarify what you mean, please littlebillie
"I know a few Scots who have bought property in the uk ..."

er, I'm a Scot and my house is in the UK. Same goes for 90% of my street. The other 10% have also bought property in the UK but are not Scots

I'm really missing your point. Have you missed part of your post out, or am I being super thick?

I will happily take a bit of short term economic uncertainty in the event of a yes vote if the outcome is no more nuclear weapons on Scottish soil.

Degrees are free to take in Scotland. But students still need to fund their living expenses. I think most people in England understand that.

I will happily take a bit of short term economic uncertainty in the event of a yes vote if the outcome is no more nuclear weapons on Scottish soil.

You haven't read the White Paper, then?

282. Will NATO members with nuclear-armed vessels be allowed to enter Scottish waters or dock at Scottish ports?

It is our firm position that an independent Scotland should not host nuclear weapons and we would only join NATO on that basis.

While the presence of nuclear weapons on a particular vessel is never confirmed by any country, we would expect any visiting vessel to respect the rules that are laid down by the government of an independent Scotland.

While they are both strong advocates for nuclear disarmament, both Norway and Denmark allow NATO vessels to visit their ports without confirming or denying whether they carry nuclear weapons. We intend that Scotland will adopt a similar approach as Denmark and Norway in this respect.

I would far rather a properly maintained and known weapon rather than a complete unknown sitting in Faslane.

I know loads of people who plan to vote yes, and I lean that way myself. I lived in London for 20 years and have friends and family all over England. When you live in Scotland, you get a very different view of the UK than you do in the south. BTW I have never considered myself a nationalist.

The main problem as I see it is the disconnect between the UK govt and Scotland. There's something wrong when an entire country (scotland) ends up with a govt they would NEVER have voted for. The same govt who influences what we can or cannot do. We are not a Tory nation, simple as that, and yet we end up with Tory govts 50% of the time.

As an aside, and it's totally subjective on my part, but I also believe there's an inferiority complex running through the Scottish psyche and I think self-determinism is the only way to beat that.

I don't understand the 'we're not represented in Parliament because we're a labour country' because maybe Not in this parliament, but the UK has had plenty of labour governments in the past (eg Blair/Brown and Kinnock, for starters) and there's no reason to think it won't happen again -so voting yes because you don't agreed with the current UK government politics seems shortsighted to me. However I do think that Scotland should vote yes so that both nations can get on with managing their own affairs

lessmissabs

most Scots actually dont vote at all

Incorrect.

In general elections from 1945-2010 Scottish votor turnout was always over 50%
www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm

In Scottish Parliament Elections turnout in all elections except 1 was 50%+
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Scotland

In the general elections these percentages are within a few % of the UK as a whole, or the individual regions.

Voter apathy is an issue though, throughout the whole of the UK.

I am currently studying European law and I have to say I am concerned for Scottish independence, just because they don't yet have backing from Brussels. It will affect both Scotland and the UK who will lose seats at the EP. Also it does beg the question if Scotland doesn't have the currency from England or the EU what currency can they/would they use and how would this affect their overall economy?

I think if Scotland could get support from the EU then they would be significantly more stable however they would then have to fall within the EU economy and all the restraints this would bring.

I have nothing against anyone wanted independence but there still seems so much uncertainty at this stage that would make me concerned for the citizens of Scotland and how it would affect them.

I don't understand the 'we're not represented in Parliament because we're a labour country' because maybe Not in this parliament, but the UK has had plenty of labour governments in the past (eg Blair/Brown and Kinnock, for starters) and there's no reason to think it won't happen again -so voting yes because you don't agreed with the current UK government politics seems shortsighted to me

No, we are not represented as Scottish Votes make no difference to the outcome in the vast majority of cases. We genuinely, may as well not bother voting in General Elections - there really is no point.

Illustrated here:
www.flickr.com/photos/potatojunkie/8087151692/sizes/o/

And in table form here: (scroll down past all the Nationalist rhetoric)
wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/

Also it does beg the question if Scotland doesn't have the currency from England or the EU what currency can they/would they use and how would this affect their overall economy

It is very unlikely rUK would not enter into a formal currency union with Scotland as that would massively negatively impact the pound. In the event that there was no union there is nothing to stop Scotland using the pound anyway, it is a fully tradeable currency and any country in the world can use it.

I think if Scotland could get support from the EU then they would be significantly more stable however they would then have to fall within the EU economy and all the restraints this would bring.

Again, it is unlikely the EU would want to lose all of the benefits Scotland brings, and while if Scotland were in the EU there would be restraints, but there would also be benefits. An independent Scotland could also, of course, choose to leave the EU if that is what the Scottish people wanted.

I have nothing against anyone wanted independence but there still seems so much uncertainty at this stage that would make me concerned for the citizens of Scotland and how it would affect them

This uncertainty thing keeps cropping up. Thing is, where are the certainties if Scotland votes no? Westminster has already revoked powers from the Scottish Government without consultation. Barnett will almost certainly be scrapped. THe UK is going to have an EU in/out referendum...

There can be no certainties with a yes, or a no vote. However, a yes vote at least brings them more under Scotlands control.

YANBU. I think that if/when Scottish people get a referendum, English people should have the same. But that won't happen. England hasn't got its own representation anywhere.

I'm also really sick of the notion being pedalled that Scots are somehow nicer and more socialist than the rest of the UK. What I found in Scotland, as a professional woman who has been well educated and lived abroad, that the Scottish State is really corrupt in an ingrained, endemic way. Its jobs for the boys. Or your uncle who has just bid on a PPI contract.

I also found the level of competence and education of a lot of the people I had to work with very questionable (I'm in Belgium working at he moment). Scotland employs a higher proportion of people in the public sector than any other EU country...

LessMissAbs, may I ask, frankly, what is your beef with Scotland? Why do you dislike it so much. You seem to knock it at every opportunity! This 'jobs for the boys' business - I've heard this from you before, that we don't get employed on merit in this country, but on who our dad's are, and who can give us a leg-up. Having lived in Scotland my entire life, I don't find this to be the case. Very, very few people I know got their jobs through nepotism. Certainly not enough to represent an entire country. And our education system, I'd say, is pretty damn good.

As for Scotland being like a Scandinavian socialist country - its a Celtic country, not Scandinavian. The people I find tend towards being excitable, not calm. I find the tendency towards constantly telling themselves how wonderful it is all the time maddening. It means nothing can ever be directed that is wrong, because valid criticism is rejected as being 'anti-Scottish'.

And again, we are 'excitable'? Thanks very much. Apt to fly off the handle, make silly, rash decisions, always 'on the bevvy,' perhaps?

An honest question, why this voracious dislike of Scotland?

However, a yes vote at least brings them more under Scotlands control.

No it doesn't

EU membership is not under Scotland's control.
Currency is not under Scottish control. A currency union is completely possible in theory (although Darling and the Welsh First Minister are against it). Even if it goes ahead it means that England/ Westminster continues to set monetary policy (e.g. that inflation should be under 2%, control of the money supply).

This will affect an independent Scotland greatly, and it would have no control.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

It is very unlikely rUK would not enter into a formal currency union with Scotland as that would massively negatively impact the pound. In the event that there was no union there is nothing to stop Scotland using the pound anyway, it is a fully tradeable currency and any country in the world can use it.

Here we are again, with more vagueries. You claimed earlier that increases in government spending on welfare would pay for themselves through higher taxes, and when pressed on this you couldn't give an answer. Here you're claiming that simply using the pound would be fine, as if losing any means to alter the interest rates around the currency you're using would be a minor annoyance rather than catastrophic. I don't think that you're addressing the many fiscal and economic pitfalls which independence would bring and I wonder why that is.

Again, it is unlikely the EU would want to lose all of the benefits Scotland brings, and while if Scotland were in the EU there would be restraints, but there would also be benefits. An independent Scotland could also, of course, choose to leave the EU if that is what the Scottish people wanted.

Would you like to list some of the 'benefits' that Scotland brings to the EU? I'm not talking about welfare handouts, btw.

Were you aware that the loudest opposition to Scottish independence is coming not from England but Spain? Even if you get your vote to leave, you still have to get the agreement of every other nation to join the EU. Spain has said it won't agree. Spain will veto Scotland's entry in to the EU, because it doesn't want Catalonia and Basqueland (!) to secede.