AIBU to think Scotland are gonna have moring after regret

[Sadoldbag]

Just heard today that Asda and morrisons will hike there prices up as the store in the uk subsidise the ones in Scotland.

Also the persident of the European union has said last week on hard talk Scotland will not be able to jump the que on the back of the uk coat tails and will have to join and fresh and wait in the back of the que


And royal mail have also said they may stop mail to the far flung parts of Scotland if they go ita lone as they loose money in the shetlands ect and they would only be required to provide mail in the uk.


And it seems to me all the bits in the white paper are all assertions and weather they keep the pound ect is not actually up to them.

I think this is gonna be like ringing your boss when drunk it sounds like a good idea at the time

But They will regert it in the morining

[Babanouche]

santana your post illustrates perfectly why people desire independence. Scotland will always have an uphill struggle on its hands as long as the 8 million people in the SE hold sway over how we govern our affairs.

And as for a country and a border being arbitrary notions....speechless. Is that why Westminster govts have been so quick to go to wars despite massive popular protest?

Wow, I started this thread undecided, but some of the comments on here are definitely encouraging me to vote yes.

[SantanaLopez]

Being a Scot and voting no, I don't think it does. The 8 million individuals do not have any more of a say than each Scottish individual. Their votes aren't double weighted, for example.

A country and border is arbitrary- you pick one person from each side and you will not be able to tell by looking at them which one they come from. A border is really just a line, helped by geography in a lot of cases.

[Sadoldbag]

Babanouche you divorce from the uk and marry Brussels which is a far harsher mistress.

[WilsonFrickett]

Also not to mention that fact that Blair and Brown are both Scots. So we had a Scottish PM for 13 years.

What has that to do with the price of fish?

[HeyLuciani]

mirry2
"I don't understand the 'we're not represented in Parliament because we're a labour country' because maybe Not in this parliament, but the UK has had plenty of labour governments in the past (eg Blair/Brown and Kinnock, for starters) and there's no reason to think it won't happen again......"

. Kinnock was never in government, he was the opposition leader for about 10 years. Are you quite young? I ask this because I am surprised that you think the UK has had 'plenty' of Labour governments. They have actually only governed for about a third of the time over the last 100 years.

[ProfondoRosso]

Indeed, HeyLuciani (good name, btw - are you a fellow Fall fan? ). I remember my parents sitting up all night to see the constituencies turn red in 1997 (when I was 12). They'd waited a long time for that night and told me and my DSis that this was important, and things were going to change for the better.

Sadly, that didn't quite work out, but I'd love to see a good Labour govt in Scotland in my parents' time.

[HeyLuciani]

Yes, do like a bit of Fall - that was a favourite song when I was about 18!
That election in 97 was exciting - my teens and student years were the Thatcher years, so it was fascinating to finally have something different. I have spent many an election night sitting up for the results.....I really don't know why I bother because politicians all seem the bloody same these days and nothing much changes, does it? (old cynic )

[mirry2]

Luciani - sorry - Kinnock was around for so long I forgot he was never PM. Thanks for reminding me.

[womblesofwestminster]

smug shadenfreude in England if it all goes pear-shaped.

Damn right >>>rubs hands together

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

So, could the English create a referendum to vote the Scotland out of the UK, against Scotland's will? Is this possible

That's an interesting question. I'm guessing there would be issues as you would be forcing the far smaller (population wise) country out against their will, as opposed to the smaller country choosing to become independent.

I have to confess, I do feel slightly guilty about the whole Scottish referendum thing, as, if Scotland does gain independence, it will have a pretty negative impact on rUK.

[womblesofwestminster]

it will have a pretty negative impact on rUK

But not on Scotland?

[chateauferret]

Lots of people assume I'll be voting no because I'm English. Not so. I'll be voting no because the whole idea is bollocks.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

But not on Scotland

I'm in the yes camp, so obviously I think it'll be positive for Scotland. It is interesting though, that the sole focus on this is the impact, positive or negative, on Scotland.

There seems to be no discourse around the impact on rUK ( other then the Scots scrounge off the English brigade)

[mirry2]

I suppose if the Scots vote No the English could have a referendum to become independent from the rest of the UK. Not remotely likely to happen but an interesting idea to mull over.

[flatpackhamster]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I have to confess, I do feel slightly guilty about the whole Scottish referendum thing, as, if Scotland does gain independence, it will have a pretty negative impact on rUK.

Presumably you can give us the same level of detail on that as you could when asked for some actual numbers about the claims you were making ten pages back.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Presumably you can give us the same level of detail on that as you could when asked for some actual numbers about the claims you were making ten pages back

Surely it's obvious?

rUK will lose c.10% of it's assets...

Currency: either rUK will be in currency union with Scotland which some make look askance at, or it won't which means the pound will suddenly have less assets backing it up.

EU: Again, as Scotland takes it's fair share of assets/territorial waters rUK will have less to negotiate with in the EU

Nuclear Warheads: What is rUK going to do with them? Where will they put them? The outcome of this could have a profound effect on rUKs standing on the UN security council, and on NATO membership.

There is lots more if you think about it...

[MadeOfStarDust]

I'm British - of mixed Scottish/English descent, born in England, raised in Scotland, now living in England... so I have no say anyhow...

if Scotland left Britain it would feel like there is a hole in my life... it is heartbreaking to think of it.........

[flatpackhamster]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Surely it's obvious?

rUK will lose c.10% of it's assets...

But lose 10%+ of its costs. Worst case for the UK, a net break-even. More realistic case, we're financially better off.

Currency: either rUK will be in currency union with Scotland which some make look askance at, or it won't which means the pound will suddenly have less assets backing it up.

And fewer costs. IMO the UK won't enter a currency union with Scotland. There's no gain for us.

EU: Again, as Scotland takes it's fair share of assets/territorial waters rUK will have less to negotiate with in the EU.

I find the term 'fair share' a weasel one. I've seen the SNP's proposal to help itself to as much of the UK's territorial waters as possible. Let's imagine that it's settled through maritime law rather than the SNP's fantasy law, so yes, the UK has smaller territorial waters that the EU can help itself to.

Nuclear Warheads: What is rUK going to do with them? Where will they put them? The outcome of this could have a profound effect on rUKs standing on the UN security council, and on NATO membership.

You're making two big assumptions. The first is that the nukes will leave, and they may not. The second is that we are literally unable to find anywhere else to put them. If we were a landlocked nation and Scotland was our only deepwater port that might be a problem. We are not, so it is not.

Out of all of these proposed 'problems' for the UK, the only one that stands up at all is the loss of territorial waters.

[womblesofwestminster]

Worst case for the UK, a net break-even. More realistic case, we're financially better off.

That the crux of it.

We need our own referendum.